52100 folder

STR

STR

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I got a nice little package today in the mail that I ordered from a fellow Oklahoma knife maker just a little over a week and a half ago. Ray Kirk, Talequah resident and ABS Master Smith, was kind enough to indulge me in my request to try out a nice thin hammer forged 52100 blade, but I really expected that with Blade Show just around the corner that I'd be waiting quite a while for it. I had sent him a photo of what I was hoping for and he made it up for me pronto. Today I built it into a nice little folder along the same lines as the gents folders I've done. I think I was going through some slight withdrawls from all the knives I've sold and also from selling one very similar to this to my friend Kevin.

The blade was a bit short on this one but I built it with a nice choil so I can choke up on the blade nice and tight for some great detail work with the point to kind kind of cheat a bit more length out of the blade that way. This is a great little whittler right here! This thing has such a great geometry that even dull it still keeps cutting and cutting. Zipping through everything I've tried it on so far. It sharpens back up with just a few strops also which I find particularly pleasing. Its razor blade thin but typical of some other 52100 blades I've used it takes a very nice biting edge that it hangs onto and yet is tough and stable. I am not disappointed in it at all. Two thumbs up to my friend Ray on this gem and especially the speed with which he got it out to me. :thumbup: :thumbup:

STR
 
Interesting!!

High carbon in a folder (much less a framelock) is a pretty rare thing these days.

I like the profile.

Great work.

-j
 
It is a bit rare these days to see carbon steels much in more modern locking folders especially in production folders. Kershaw will be producing one of the Leeks this way in July with a carbon Damascus blade. I plan to obtain at least one of those when its available but with only 500 being made it may be hard to pull off.

Now that I've had a few bits of feedback I can let out my secret on this one. The best thing about this folder is how it proves what I've always said about there being no such thing as waste in my shop. The folder lock was a previous screw up from a past attempt, as was the pocket clip. But as is usually the case with such things I hang onto them with the thought that sooner or later I'll make them work somewhere and sure enough it happens. It may take a few months but sooener or later I'll find a way to make use of it. Either my family or myself or a friend almost always ends up with one of these 'seconds' of mine at least I guess that is what you'd call them.

Some may have noticed how close the head of the screw is to the edge on the stop pin. I cleaned up the clip pretty good but its a screw up too but both are fully functional and are nothing that can't be put to work so I keep them since from a utility stand point they are fine.

Titanium is just too expensive to throw out these days anyway but being the pack rat that I am I'm pretty much known for keeping everything. :D

STR
 
Well, yes, the stop pin was kind of close, but I wasn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth... I liked the profile and the blade steel!

I wonder how easy it is to keep the pivot/mate face area of a carbon steel blade free of corrosion. Maybe if it was hot blued or something...

By the way, anytime you run out of friends and family to give your seconds to, I'll be here.

Honest.

-j
 
I asked Ray about that and he confirmed that the tang was hard enough, but not as hard as the blade edge of course. I did use teflon washers in this one and don't plan to use it much around water. I think it should be fine for me. I'm not sure I'd sell them this way due to fears of just what you speak of though.

STR
 
By the way, anytime you run out of friends and family to give your seconds to, I'll be here.
Click to expand...

Just caught this. Miissed it last time completely somehow.

I'll keep that in mind but some of my screw ups belong somewhere in the bottom of the ocean and not in public hands because they are pretty embarrassing.:eek: I only will let them out if they are functionally perfect even if there are cosmetic flaws like in this one.

By the way, I have given away several to forum members that promised not to shout too loudly about where it came from though. :D

No promises but you never know. I push the envelope now and then and many times get in a bit over my head at first. This Ouparator model is a prime example of that. I have only sold three, and traded one. I made nine total though and all the first ones were just not up to par.
STR
 
*grin*

I hear ya. I know the feeling about stuff that needs to be ground to bits, incinerated, fed to ravenous lions, and the resulting mess shot off into space. ;)

I love how you've gone from mods and framelock conversions to full-on folders.

Keep up the great work!

-jon
 
Thanks. I guess it does look that way doesn't it? If you check my gallery of pics in the homepage link in my profile though you'll see that I actually started with folders long before I did any mods. There are some in there going way back to before my 26 year old son was even born. Folding knives have always been my first love. Even when making fixed blades all those years I always wanted and tried to make folders sometimes succeeding and most times not.

I guess my first work on existing folders were of the type to take a knife apart so I could figure out how it worked. Its how I got my first spanking actually! :) I took the Kabar my dad gave me apart and he saw it in pieces on the kitchen table when he came home from work. Can't say he was too pleased to see that..Got my second spanking when he found out I copied it using tools from his tool box ruining his spark plug gapper tool because I thought the thicker sides and pivot would be perfect for a folder. :D Boy was I wrong!:(


STR
 
I'm drooling at the pictures and thoughts of it cutting and drooling over how cool that'd look with a snakewood or burled scale on the non-lock side.

Great work, Steve!
 
Well, I was wondering how long it was going to take before you noticed this thread.

Its a funny thing Thom, I ordered two of these blades. I was talking to Ray Kirk on the phone earlier and he lets it out that he actually made three. I of course bought the third one also which I expect in the mail probably Saturday or Monday.

I did this first one for myself and I knew in advance I liked 52100 a lot when it was done right but I'm not totally sure 57 Rc is the best hardness for a small folder. At least this is what I was thinking to myself. After cutting quite a bit with it in the last 24 hours I'm inclinded to think otherwise though. I thought at first that I was not impressed with it. I cut some hemp rope with it and saw some refection on the edge after just five cuts, felt it was dulling pretty good and thought to myself I don't get it. Well, I resharpened it, brought out the 320 grit EdgePro stone this time instead of stopping at the 220 and wow what a difference. Suddenly this thing just performed and well.

I imagine that the edge portion of the folder is the only part that is at 57 hardness. Being differentialy treated I'm sure the spine is softer and the tang also but its hard enough to not be gritty on the detent ball and hard enough to dull a HSS drill pretty quick so I suspect it hovers around the 40s in RC there. It is for sure harder than pearlite steel and harder than the titanium. Its soft enough to bend also which is a bit like unhardened steel in how it behaves there. It takes a bit of muscle to bend it though. However I did manage to center the blade better on my own by bending it in my wood vice on my work table with some grunting.

I cut with it again today after running it through the paces yesterday and I can see me really taking to this one over time. It slices so well and is so thin that I have not quite figured out yet if it is such a good championship level cutter because of the stability and edge holding of the steel or if its the superb geometry of it being so thin that it just cuts when it shouldn't. I've quit trying to figure that out. I will say this though, I've never had a blade that strops better on jeans than this one. I did 150 slices today on hemp rope stopping at every 50 cuts to strop it on my pant leg. Before the stropping I tried to cut some old thin postal reciepts I had and it wouldn't really do it. After stropping it would. Now I don't know about you but thats pretty darn cool.

And speaking of 150 cuts in hemp rope. I don't think people can appreciate what a feat that is for a small thin little folder like this to accomplish with the person doing the cutting bare handed. Its actually quite impressive. It had way more cuts left too if I had wanted to put on gloves and continue. I venture to say it had another 100 in it or more and probably well more if I continued to strop it or brought out a leather strop and some Flexcut compound. Someone like Cliff could more than likely take this thing well beyond that but I was simply just getting to know it. Ray's work here with this steel is impressive if you get the right edge on it to begin with.

Another funny thing happened today too. I almost forgot to mention this part. I started another 52100 frame lock in the shop this morning and after getting it together I realized it was left handed. Now why would I be making a left handed frame lock when I always carry them right handed? Silly me. :D

Its not done yet but I guess I'll have to find some lefty out there that wants to test this blade out. You know anybody like that Thom?

STR
 
STR said:
I did this first one for myself and I knew in advance I liked 52100 a lot when it was done right but I'm not totally sure 57 Rc is the best hardness for a small folder. At least this is what I was thinking to myself.
Click to expand...

We play the numbers game and sometimes it plays us right back. Remember your NGK Storm being the best of the bunch I tried? Sometimes the RC test gives us useful data, but unless other conditions are met, it just lets you know how much force was needed to dimple the steel.

STR said:
I imagine that the edge portion of the folder is the only part that is at 57 hardness. Being differentialy treated I'm sure the spine is softer and the tang also but its hard enough to not be gritty on the detent ball and hard enough to dull a HSS drill pretty quick so I suspect it hovers around the 40s in RC there.
Click to expand...

Sounds like full martensite tempered down to the fabled "spring temper." :) At least one other guy out there does the same thing to the spines of his larger blades and a few factories do, too (Mad Dog and Swamp Rat). Pearlite is the devil, so other than drill dulling, it sounds like the right stuff.

STR said:
It takes a bit of muscle to bend it though. However I did manage to center the blade better on my own by bending it in my wood vice on my work table with some grunting.
Click to expand...

I'm sticking my completely unqualified guess of spring-tempered martensite.

STR said:
I cut with it again today after running it through the paces yesterday and I can see me really taking to this one over time. It slices so well and is so thin that I have not quite figured out yet if it is such a good championship level cutter because of the stability and edge holding of the steel or if its the superb geometry of it being so thin that it just cuts when it shouldn't. I've quit trying to figure that out. I will say this though, I've never had a blade that strops better on jeans than this one. I did 150 slices today on hemp rope stopping at every 50 cuts to strop it on my pant leg. Before the stropping I tried to cut some old thin postal reciepts I had and it wouldn't really do it. After stropping it would. Now I don't know about you but thats pretty darn cool.
Click to expand...

Pretty darn cool until you wear strop-marks into your pants and you're either banned from cutting or only allowed to use knapped obsidian or serrated Vascowear. So until that happens (this week), that's just awesome!

STR said:
Another funny thing happened today too. I almost forgot to mention this part. I started another 52100 frame lock in the shop this morning and after getting it together I realized it was left handed. Now why would I be making a left handed frame lock when I always carry them right handed?
Click to expand...

Is it because you know in your heart-of-hearts that your grandchild (congratulations to your son on getting married, BTW!) will be a lefty? My daughter appears to be right-handed, so she's getting knives I wish I could enjoy more fully.

STR said:
Its not done yet but I guess I'll have to find some lefty out there that wants to test this blade out. You know anybody like that Thom?
Click to expand...

Most of the lefties I know aren't into knives. Investing, rugby, and online games, but not the knives so much. Very sad. :( I'm bouncing around like dog with OCD in Dr. Doolittle to test that knife and send it back with my best edge (in better condition than last time, too :o ), but don't know anyone like that.
 
Good deal. You might shoot me your address in an email so I'll have it Thom. Then look for a little care package in the mail sometime next week I'd say.

I won't be in the shop tomorrow or Saturday. Its my B-day tomorrow and we have plans. I'll be 29 BTW. (I'm just prematurely gray thank you! :D ) Ok ok, 29 again. I am off to bed.


STR
 
Steve,
Sorry that I had forgotten to mail the last blade. Got busy again and then the thought was gone. :)
I will mail it to you this morning.
Nice forum, just heard about it this morning from a friend of mine. Your not near busy enough if you have all this time on your hands. I do think it is great that you do take the time to share with the rest of us.
Talk to you later.
Ray
 
So nice of you to join in Ray. Good to hear from you. I wasn't worried at all about the third blade. I know the rush is on to prepare for Blade for so many right now.

I stay as busy as I want to be. I've slowed things down a bit to keep it at 'hobby pace' here lately. It got to be too much like a 'real job' there for a while and I'm not looking for anything full time. It is fun though.

Please drop in anytime my friend and share your knowledge with us and your work.

Also, I do apologize. I thought I told you about my new forum in our talk but I guess it was someone else. I know I've told a lot of folks about it. Sorry if I missed out on telling you though.

STR
 
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