52100

Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
31
I sure could use some help with forging 52100. I read that forging should be done around 2000 degrees but if raise the temp to 2500 will this cause any known problems with this steal? Also I will be useing High temp salt to do heat treating, can any one give me a good formula for heat treating 52100 with salt? And just to were everyone out, I have one more question, does anyone have any advise on differential harding this steal?
Thanks for any help

 
Mr. Hansen, I got what little I know about 52100 from two sources, Ed Fowler's book Knifetalk and from Ed Caffrey's forum over at CKD. He can tell you all you want to know, in fact I got the info I used specifically from a post he made covering 52100 from bar to blade. 52100 needs to be worked hotter than other steels but I think 2500 degrees might be a bit much, hopefully someone here can confirm that. The heat treating process is long and drawn out for best performance and a liquid nitrogen quench is also recomended as part of the program. Even without the liquid nitrogen quench the small blade I made was tough!-Guy Thomas
 
Mr. Hansen
I used to use Ed Fowlers method, but being a weekend warrior it took two to three weeks to HT a batch of blades. Big waist of time for me.
I have gone to Al Pendrays method and have noticed no loss of blade performance. In fact the opposite may be the rule.
1 forge 1900-2100
2 after rough grinding heat to 1850 -1900
hold for 5 min.
3 quench in molten salt at 500 hold for 3
min and air cool
4 back into the salts 500 - 600 for 3 hours
5 heat to 1550 catch it on the way up 1 min
at temp is plenty
6 quench in salt 475 for 3 hours RC 58-59
with lots of toughness

If you want you can torch draw the spine of the blade but I have had no reason to bend a 3-5 inch hunting knife to 90 deg.
ps WELCOMETO THE FORUMS

------------------
Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html

[This message has been edited by R Dockrell (edited 01-12-2001).]
 
Silent
To my thinking this process would be just about impossible without salts.
What else will "quench" a blade at 500 F. and still be "fast enough" to harden carbon steel while holding that temp.
When I do this procces I do steps 2 and 3 at the tail end of a S/S HT cycle with high temp salts and quench salts. Usually on a Saturday. This normalizes the blade and I have never had a problem with warpage. Then on Sunday I do steps 4,5,and 6 with low temp salts and quench salts to harden and temper the blade.
Hope this makes sence.

------------------
Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html
 
Good info above! Robert explained the process for creating a banite matrix in 52100 very well.
52100 is one of those steels that requires a bit more tinkering with methods to get it right. I say this because each of us has different conditions and tooling within our shops.
Generally speaking, if your going to work 52100 at high heats, make it the first couple of heats. Try to move most of your material within those first two or three high heats, and then reduce the heats throughout the forging process, finishing with dark to med red heats, and light hammers/blows. Normailizing is critical to the performace of this steel, as is good annealing practices. 52100 is one of the steels that will not tolerate much over heating. If overheated it will not give you any outward signs until your finished with the blade, and test cut with it. That's when you'll wonder "why doesn't this blade cut very well?" If this occurs, overheating is likely the culprit.
The heat treat methodology I use is similar to Ed Fowler's, with some modifications I have learned over the years. Again, Robert is correct that is does take a long time to heat treat blades, and if you do not have the time required you might want to go with the banite heat treatment method with salts. I have not experimented totally with the salts, therefore I don't currently use them. The results do however, have their own merits. One thing to remember when forging blades.....if you are looking into the manufactures data, take it with a grain of salt. Most everything that is written by the companies and/or in heat treating books gain their data based on a 1" cross sections of the material. I've never made a blade 1" thick, and there is a big difference between that, and what we do with cutlery.

[This message has been edited by Ed Caffrey (edited 01-13-2001).]
 
I want to thank every one for all your help.
I'll let every one know how my project turns
out when completed.
 
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