580t

thawk

thawk

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Oct 28, 2006
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Interesting find. I believe one of the original Old Timers. Not used real hard, but looks to have had some pocket time.

58OT_bone_fo.jpg

Ulster 580T with bone handles, showing some grain separation on the front side.

58OT_bone_bo.jpg

Redder on the back

58OT_bone_sp.jpg

Milled Brass Liners

The front of the clip is stamped Ulster over USA. The back side is stamped 580. I've been looking for one for a while. Now to find the jack version.
 
Yeah and me!! Lovely find Hal, don't think I've seen a bone handle 58OT

Russell
 
Hal, what a great find!!! Man, you're on a roll! First the bone 8OT, then this one and that sweet Ulster, did you find some kind of time capsule somewhere?

Eric
 
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lrv said:
I think the 50 and 58 ads from 1961 below called these handles Meerschaum Bone. I don't think we are done with the discussion just yet as to what Meerschaum really is.
Since the 50 OT was available for so short a time and we have only seen a couple of examples and the handles look just like Hal's 58, I'm leaning towards saying Hal's 58OT is Meerschaum.

http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ULSTER/images/UK-60_7.jpg
http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ULSTER/images/UK-60_8.jpg
Click to expand...

The mystery does continue. Real Meerschaum is a white material so I don't know why they wouldn't just have called bone, "Bone" as it didn't resemble true Meerschaum. In the ads you posted the handles look saw-cut as well which is something I have only seen in delrin.
 
Dave,
All true what you say. Discussions will continue :D
Ill get a good picture of my 50 OT's handles
Let the fun begin..
 
This 58 OT I have is cow bone. Like the 50 OT Dale has. Also pretty sure it was never sawcut. It is smooth like a 2OT I have. Both the 58 and Dales 50 have milled liners too. I've never seen a delrin 58 with milled liners either. I have 6 of them, have sold one, and gave one away. For whatever that's worth.

I too do not know what Meerschaum really was. Are you saying Larry, that when they said Meerschaum it was really smooth or sawcut bone? I have assumed when they used that term, it was a marketing term for whatever plastic was replacing real bone. But by no means firm on my assumption.
 
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Hal,
I am making no presumptions. I'm hoping someone else can help :D
Sure would be good if we could ask Dave..

Here is a gouping of the 50's I have and a close up of the 50OT
Like your 58 and Dales 50 my 50's liners are milled. you can just make that out in the close up.

On the back of the 50 there are "saw" like marks on the handle but nothing like the 58.

(58OT, 50OT, 50 and 50D )
50-s.jpg


50OT-b.jpg
 
I can clearly see sawcuts in your 50 Larry. Mine I can't, but I can see canals in the bone. Here is a shot as close up as I can get. I looked with a magnifying class. The bone is kind of flaky, as if maybe not a prime piece of bone for a handle.

bone.jpg
 
The bone handles likely started off with sawcuts, but the glazing process likely filed them off. On a knife with bolsters on either end, such as the stockman, the handle material (covers), in this case bone, is cut slightly thicker than the bolsters to allow for discrepancies in thickness of the covers after they are sanded flat on a flat grinder. This was necessary since a bandsaw never cuts a perfectly straght and even cover. Once the covers are pinned to the bolster scales, they're sanded again to bring them even with the bolsters and the pin heads (which are countersunk to the same thickness as the bolsters), then the knives are assembled and the bolsters and adjoining cover material are glazed smooth and even. It's that second sanding where the handles are brough down even with the bolsters and pins that takes the sawcuts off as well, on some knives more than others. The delrin handles aleviated this by allowing the covers to be molded to exactly the same thickness every time, right even with the bolsters.
On single bolster bareheads, such as barlows, you could leave the sawcuts intact because it didn't really matter how thick the covers were on the barehead side.

Those knives look great guys! I'll talk to Dave tomorrow and see if he has any other info to add.

Eric

PS-- This is a very W I D E thread!
 
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Whoever said they have not seen sawcut bone is forgetting the thousands of Barlows that were produced like that.....I think the 2OT's are distinctive with all their different colors because is was dyed bone and no two the same....some are light,some dark and some in between..part of their enduring appeal...if Schrade said they were Meerschaum Bone in their advertising material did we ever know them to handle the truth in their advertising carelessly.....all shout..YES....many examples.....however they are definately bone and probably bovine...Hoo Roo
 
Larry, just as I said in the post above yours, it was much easier to keep the sawcuts on barehead knives such as barlows. I wonder if the term meerschaum referred to the color of the delrin before the brown dye was applied? Doesn't seem like that would be the case either. :confused:

Eric
 
Wide and deep! :-)
I'll shrink the pictures if anyone wants.
Eric. Say hello to Dave for me. Wish I was a lot closer to Ellenville.
I'm betting the meerschaum is referring to the smooth texture and has little to do with the material used. Marketing poetry :p
Also notice how little shrinkage the is in the bone handles.
TTYL
Larry
 
Well, the mystery continues, Dave doesn't recall ever making the 58OT in bone handles. Said it was just made as a cheap knife originally for the tobacco giveways. I'll print up a copy of the Ulster cat. page and show him, it may just jog his memory. I did get to the bottom of the ''dot in the shield" mystery tough. That was Henry Baer's idea, seems one of the pen companies, I think Waterford(?) was doing the same thing on their pens, and he liked the idea (this was also how he got the idea for the lifetime warranty on the Uncle Henrys, which by the way came about during a meeting with someone from I believe Belknap Hardware, who happened to suggest that Henry Baer should name a knife "The Uncle Henry"). I digress, as for the shield dot, Dave said it was a nightmare. It had to be done last because the shields were buffed as a final step, and the buffer would have taken the paint right off, so they had to hire someone to apply a dot of paint to each shield and hope it dried by the time it ws packaged. Needless to say the idea didn't last long, and Dave learned to dislike pen companies.
Hopefully I can get some additional info on that 580 tomorrow, I'll print up a copy of the knife too, sure looks might similar to the 8OT bone, doesn't it? The knife was originally made in Ellenville, but production was later moved to Providence for all the RJ Reynolds knives.

Larry, pics of knives can never be too big for me :D:D


Eric
 
Great info Eric,really interesting stuff mate...keep pumping him for info..!....now does he remember a 14Kt Gold Calendar in an alligator skin purse.....?owned by a Beverly Hills Doctor??........Uncle Albert is supposed to have had one as well or perhaps it?.....got to find out before I die....Hoo Roo
 
Larry, I did ask him about that knife a couple of weeks ago, abot the time we were discussing the gent's knife. He had no involvement with that one at all, I believe it came and went before he joined the company, or at least before he was involved with taht end of the company. He does recall the gent's knives though, the gold handles were made in Providence, recalls AB saying he made enough money off that knife and one other (I don't recall now, have to ask him) to recoup what he paid for Ulster!!

Eric
 
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