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I have the 10OT barlow, see listings for the 58OT from time to time, but what's the third? I can tell it's an OT Scout/utility, but what's the number code? I've heard 50OT and 114OT, but never seen one.
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58OT, 10OT, and the other Prince Albert would be...
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Codger_64
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http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/articles/Ulster.pdf
Larry done it! An excellent job of sleuthing out the details on the PA offer.
Larry done it! An excellent job of sleuthing out the details on the PA offer.
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So it's the 114OT. I've never seen one on the Bay, which is weird. Considering I have Scout knife and Ulster knife set as two fave searches, you'd think I'd see one.
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Considering I have "Scout knife" as a favorite search, if it comes up there I should be able to catch it. I have a minty 10-OT, see mint 58s from time to time, now to find a minty 114. Heck, I even have the tin!
The trouble with finding a "114" is that the knife is not marked with that model number. It actually took the experts here at the Schrade Collectors Forum quite a while to find a written reference confirming "114" as the model number.
I have seen a couple recently on eBay - don't recall the condition though. One was advertised as a Scout Knife and the other was a "four blade Old Timer." In the past I've seen them as a Camp Knife.
Happy Hunting,
-Bob
I have seen a couple recently on eBay - don't recall the condition though. One was advertised as a Scout Knife and the other was a "four blade Old Timer." In the past I've seen them as a Camp Knife.
Happy Hunting,
-Bob
Codger_64
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Here is a link to a 114OT which went off a while back.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200102556049
With a mint example of both the Ulster 114 and the Ulster 114OT Old Timer, I am finally in a position to do a comparison and note exactly how they are different.
This is the standard Ulster 114 from the 1961 Ulster catalog cut:
And this is what my mint example actually looks like:
Minor details may have changed over the years with regular production engineering change orders, but without a representative sampling of a dozen or more knives over the span of quite a few years (1946-74), this is the best I can do.
Here is the Ulster 114OT Old Timer:
Starting with the handle covers, the mold is the exact same mold. The Delrin (Bonite) material on the 114 is blue-black while the material on the 114OT is the familliar dark brown dyed tan Delrin. In fact, the only place the base color can be seen on this example is where the scale has been scalloped to give access to the nick of the punch blade and on the bottom of the knife where it was glazed to the shape of the liners and springs. None was required on the bolster ends of the covers of either knife. In fact, the bolsters are slightly proud on both.
The oval shields (blank on the 114 but catalog shows ULSTER stamped, Old Timer on the 114OT) are exactly the same size and shape on both knives. Evidently the shield cavity was not molded in (allowing the use of one mold for both halves) but was bored into the scale. I say this because the locations are not identical. Close, but about a 16th of an inch closer to the near bolster on the 114OT than on the 114. An artifact of machine setup probably, not an intentional change. The brass cover and spring pins on both knives are in the same locations and same evident sizes. Spring pin is slightly conical and looks spun on the 114 compared to the domed, unmarked pin on the 114OT.
The cover liners of both knives are brass while the center liner of the 114 is brass and the 114OT is steel.
Master spear blades are identical with the exception of the nicks and the tang stamps. The nick of the 114 is 3/4" long. The nick of the 114OT is just under 5/8" long. The tang stamp of the 114 has slightly smaller and less bold type than it's Old Timer brother. A different tang stamp die, but you would have to look closely at both to see the difference. It is not a weak/strong strike from the same die. None of the other blades differ in any fashion, and none are marked in any way excepting the ULSTER over U.S.A. on both master spear blades.
Only one difference remains. Both knives retain their original unbent shackle. When pointing directly away from it's bolster, the outside of the 114 shackle (made from round stock) is 1/2" from it's bolster and widens to 7/8". The shackle of the 114OT (made from rectangular stock) is 1" beyond it's bolster and remains 3/4" wide.
Some of these nit-pickey differences mean nothing, but some may be features unique to the Old Timer version. You'll have to look closely at the examples of both in your own collections to draw any definitive conclusions.
Michael
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200102556049
With a mint example of both the Ulster 114 and the Ulster 114OT Old Timer, I am finally in a position to do a comparison and note exactly how they are different.
This is the standard Ulster 114 from the 1961 Ulster catalog cut:
And this is what my mint example actually looks like:
Minor details may have changed over the years with regular production engineering change orders, but without a representative sampling of a dozen or more knives over the span of quite a few years (1946-74), this is the best I can do.
Here is the Ulster 114OT Old Timer:
Starting with the handle covers, the mold is the exact same mold. The Delrin (Bonite) material on the 114 is blue-black while the material on the 114OT is the familliar dark brown dyed tan Delrin. In fact, the only place the base color can be seen on this example is where the scale has been scalloped to give access to the nick of the punch blade and on the bottom of the knife where it was glazed to the shape of the liners and springs. None was required on the bolster ends of the covers of either knife. In fact, the bolsters are slightly proud on both.
The oval shields (blank on the 114 but catalog shows ULSTER stamped, Old Timer on the 114OT) are exactly the same size and shape on both knives. Evidently the shield cavity was not molded in (allowing the use of one mold for both halves) but was bored into the scale. I say this because the locations are not identical. Close, but about a 16th of an inch closer to the near bolster on the 114OT than on the 114. An artifact of machine setup probably, not an intentional change. The brass cover and spring pins on both knives are in the same locations and same evident sizes. Spring pin is slightly conical and looks spun on the 114 compared to the domed, unmarked pin on the 114OT.
The cover liners of both knives are brass while the center liner of the 114 is brass and the 114OT is steel.
Master spear blades are identical with the exception of the nicks and the tang stamps. The nick of the 114 is 3/4" long. The nick of the 114OT is just under 5/8" long. The tang stamp of the 114 has slightly smaller and less bold type than it's Old Timer brother. A different tang stamp die, but you would have to look closely at both to see the difference. It is not a weak/strong strike from the same die. None of the other blades differ in any fashion, and none are marked in any way excepting the ULSTER over U.S.A. on both master spear blades.
Only one difference remains. Both knives retain their original unbent shackle. When pointing directly away from it's bolster, the outside of the 114 shackle (made from round stock) is 1/2" from it's bolster and widens to 7/8". The shackle of the 114OT (made from rectangular stock) is 1" beyond it's bolster and remains 3/4" wide.
Some of these nit-pickey differences mean nothing, but some may be features unique to the Old Timer version. You'll have to look closely at the examples of both in your own collections to draw any definitive conclusions.
Michael
Codger_64
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The Ulster 114 pattern was also used for Sears in their Craftsman line. Beginning in 1966, it is seen as the #9549 with Craftsman logo stamped oval shield.
Previous Camp Utility knives with Craftsman and Sta-Sharp branding seem to be based upon the Camillus #99, and later ones on either the Schrade #914 or the Camillus #97 or #99.
Michael
Previous Camp Utility knives with Craftsman and Sta-Sharp branding seem to be based upon the Camillus #99, and later ones on either the Schrade #914 or the Camillus #97 or #99.
Michael
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The Old Timer Camper had black plastic handles and were not labeled "114". Although anything is possible, my guess is that you have one of the 'ordinary' Ulster 114 knives. Your handle may be "Bonite" as listed in the black and white advrertisement that Codger posted above.
Best Wishes,
-Bob
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I just 1 hour ago out of the corner of my eye saw this little guy in a little hole in the wall antique store. Price said $6.00 and I offered $4.00 we agreed at $5.00. The knife itself has a little rust and stuff but I dont think the blade has ever cut anything or been touched. you know on an 8ot or something like that the blades still have the little lines on them and they look so fresh and clean, I dont know if you can see it in my picture but the blades still look like that. I love this knife. I was gonna try to pay with a muskrat pelt but I didint know how that would go over, anybody get that one? Anyway the tang stamp looks like its a year old its perfect. see ya -Joel
Codger_64
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Nice find Joel! That is the one I still need to complete the set of three.
Bob, while the handle of my 114OT indeed looks dark in the picture above, it is dark brown, not black. My regular Ulster 114 handles are indeed black.
Arnold, without the shield and shackle, I just could not say with any certainty about your knife. Those two features seen to be the only real differences I can pinpoint yet between the two examples I have, other than the handle color. The Ulster 114OT was made from 1968-74, so variations probably did happen. Is that knife dyed as red as it looks in the picture?
Michael
Bob, while the handle of my 114OT indeed looks dark in the picture above, it is dark brown, not black. My regular Ulster 114 handles are indeed black.
Arnold, without the shield and shackle, I just could not say with any certainty about your knife. Those two features seen to be the only real differences I can pinpoint yet between the two examples I have, other than the handle color. The Ulster 114OT was made from 1968-74, so variations probably did happen. Is that knife dyed as red as it looks in the picture?
Michael
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Yes, their that color.Arnold
