5th gen ?

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Raphael.caluwe

Raphael.caluwe

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As some of you may know, I've gotten my first hinderer about one year ago. It was an xm-24. two weeks later I bought an xm-18 and ended up selling my xm-24 because it was simply too big for my uses (I live in an urban area in europe). Anyway, it's a sandblasted spanto and i've literally been carrying it every day since. Two weeks ago now, i bought a stonewashed xm-18 wharncliffe and noticed some differences and improvements.
One of the first things I noticed were the anodizations on the flipper, the blade jimping and the pivot screw. The hinderer logo has also been made smaller. However, the most important difference is the action. I don't know why, but my wharncliffe is just SUPER snappy. I have never had any issues flipping my original xm, but the wharncliffe is just not comparable, it flies out the second I press down on the flipper.
Also, my wharnie feels lighter, I guess that simply is because there is less meat to the blade. The lighter blade might also be causing the snappier flipping.
Anyway, I wanted to hear from you guys if there have been any changes in detent and/or if you feel the same as me
 
OP, if you have any further questions you're more than welcome to send me an email through my profile on these forums and I will do my best to respond as quick as I can.

-Kevin
 
Every production Wharnie I have held (3 so far) has been an excellent flipper (not that I have problem getting Spantos or Slicers to flip well--I don't). I think the less mass of the Wharnie blade contributes to this. And yes, the logos have gotten a bit smaller since their introduction... but they're still gen4s... no gen5... yet. ;)
 
N2K & Hammer, I doubt that this has anything to do with it since i've taken apart both my wharnie and my spanto. As I said, i've had my spanto for about a year and since I take it apart about once every two weeks, I got quite proficient with it. The first thing I did when i got my wharnie was to take it apart and lube it all up :)
 
Concerning the "anodizing" on the blade, that is a byproduct of the heat treat. Rob and Rick have both said that the detent has not changed but as the knifes are made by hand each one will be different.
 
Hammer said:
Concerning the "anodizing" on the blade, that is a byproduct of the heat treat. Rob and Rick have both said that the detent has not changed but as the knifes are made by hand each one will be different.
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^^^THIS^^^

Which has been covered many times. Also, a lighter blade makes flipping more difficult, not the other way around.

There is no "5th Gen", there are minor manufacturing differences and the detent is one of them.
 
Are you sure about this RDA ? (that heavier blades make flipping easier) This seems quite odd. It's logical that the blade drops back in closed position or flips better when aimed downwards, but when held horizontally or upwards, I think a lighter blade should make flipping easier, since you exerce a certain force on the flipper and once it passes the detent de accumulated force makes it fly out, but no additional force is added. A lighter blade will need less force to be moved and thusly fly out faster and harder. The force applied to the flipper is the same since the detent is the same, thusly more force is added to a lighter object which should make it move harder and faster.
 
Raphael.caluwe said:
Are you sure about this RDA ? (that heavier blades make flipping easier)
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Yes, I am quite certain. I'll explain in simple terms, a ping pong ball is very light compared to a golf ball, throw both of them and tell me which one goes further.

And I know that this is only one of the two main factors that make flipping open an XM-24 much easier than flipping open a 3" XM-18.
 
RDA, the ping pong ball vs the golf ball has nothing to do with weight, rather with density. Try throwing a golf ball vs throwing a marble. If it had to do with weight you'd be able to throw a medicine ball further than a football. As for the xm-24 flipping better than the xm-18, I disagree, granted, i've only handled one xm-24, but my xm-18 definitely flipped better than my xm-24.
 
Raphael.caluwe said:
RDA, the ping pong ball vs the golf ball has nothing to do with weight, rather with density. Try throwing a golf ball vs throwing a marble. If it had to do with weight you'd be able to throw a medicine ball further than a football. As for the xm-24 flipping better than the xm-18, I disagree, granted, i've only handled one xm-24, but my xm-18 definitely flipped better than my xm-24.
Click to expand...

Quite simply, you are wrong. Carry on.
 
Raphael.caluwe said:
I'll go tell newton lol
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OK, but please don't be surprised when he laughs at you.

First, If you understood Newton's laws, you'd understand why the 4" blade flips open easier than the 3" blade. You would know that the heavier 4" blade takes more force that than the 3" blade to get it to move as the 4" blade weighs more than the 3" blade (Newton's second law). And, that once that 4" blade is in motion, it takes more to stop it than the 3" blade (Newton's first law or the law of inertia). Therefore, you can impart more force on the 4" blade due it's additional weight (compared to the 3" blade) before it starts moving and that additional force allows it to resist the frictional forces provided by the detent, pivot/washers and atmosphere.

Second, the detent force provide by a 3" lockbar is less than the 4" lockbar on average which also gives the knife with the thicker/stronger lockbar an advantage as it allows you to preload or impart more force on the 4" knife versus the 3" knife before it starts to move.

Third, the lever (i.e., the flipper) on the 4" knife is longer than the lever on a 3" giving you more leverage and mechanical advantage. Hopefully I don't need to explain levers to you.

To conclude, the 3" blade is the most difficult to flip, the 3.5" is less difficult and the 4" is the easiest of the three.

Or you could simply take examples of all three, adjust them equally and quickly figure it out in practice, as 100s of other Hinderer owners before you have already done, that the knife with the larger blade flips easier.
 
Really have enjoyed the excerpts from "Are you smarter than a 5th Grader" discussion. There is a delightful area at the top of the first page where in sticky format much information is covered to include Gens of the XM and such, as for the subject of detents ..... really really old and tired.
So, maybe just being happy with how your Wharnie flips and leaving it at that will have to suffice R.c. - sometimes joy in life transcends explanation :)
 
RDA, Your explanation is correct, however, it only explains the fact the xm-24's heavier blade contacts the stop with more force.
However, let's take the formula for acceleration(the speed of the knife flying out), a=f/m. As you can see, the speed has an inverse relation to the mass, the more weight, the more force has to be applied to achieve the same acceleration. The force applied depends on the detent, much less so on the weight of the blade, because you would not be able to build up force without detent(in any case not enough to flip it properly). That being said, I believe you if you say the detent on the xm-24 is stronger than on the xm-18, which could indeed, if it is strong enough, cause it to flip faster than the xm-18, however, this has nothing to do with weight, but solely with the detent. The only difference the weight will make is indeed how much it is affected by friction.
As for the lever, I doubt the marginal increase will make any noticeable difference in flipping.
As for you rubi, I understand, and you are not incorrect for saying that I should just be happy it flips, however, I think it is part of being human to want to understand, and to strive for knowledge, after all, this is why we can now enjoy such amazing knives!
 
You contradict yourself a couple of times.

The force that is applied has to do with the detent and the weight of the blade. If you completely eliminated the detent and only had the friction of the pivot (and atmosphere), you would see that the heavier blade requires more force to accelerate (our fingers are easily able to provide this additional force which is one of the reasons your football/medicine ball is a poor analogy along with aerodynamics) but once it is moving with its additional mass, it can resist the friction and therefore can flip fully open.

You state "The only difference the weight will make is indeed how much it is affected by friction." I agree, and it is one of the reasons the 4" flips easier than the 3" as the weight or mass of the blade allows it to resist the frictional forces (refer back to Newton's laws).

Measure the lever of a 3" and a 4" and get back to me about how it doesn't make a difference.
 
No R.c. "as for you" ...... It is not part of being Human at all, it is a characteristic of individuals not the collective "Human" that questions things that could just as easily been - simply enjoyed.
Analyzing to a granular detail searching for a reason or answer that does not exist actually sucks the enjoyment out of the experience for most people.
I understand the Law of Gravity but don't try to recall or explain it everytime I ride a roller coaster.
You asked two(2) questions in your first post of this thread and they were answered and could be answered again by a No and a No.
No 5th Generation and No detent redesign.
Yet it continues to what end .... isn't obvious.
Fact(s):
- The XM breaks in just like any mechanical device and responds well to break-in, Lubrication and proper adjustment.
- The XM is a hand-made tool and intrinsic in that process is slight (Slight) variance within defined tolerances.
- The 3" can flip just fine and generally the 3.5" flips easier and the 4" easier yet - with the caveat being "It depends on factors in bullet #1 and bullet #2 more than it does the laws of physics.
Now, you or you guys have fun with this "exercise" as for me.... I AM simply happy enjoying my knife and could not care less Why or How or anything else.

It's a Knife :rolleyes:
 
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