60s/70s Buck heat treating?

TAH

TAH

Joined
Jul 3, 2001
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What is the HRC of the old 440C blades? Did all models using 440C get the same HRC? In other words, did a 112 get the same heat treat level as a 124? Also, did Buck do the heat treating inhouse or was it contracted out back then?

I'm sure this information is posted in the forum, but I couldn't find it using the search.
 
According to this page, Paul Bos was doing the heat treat in the late 50s.
http://www.buckknives.com/about/the-people-behind-buck/

I too would be interested in seeing the Rc numbers for the different years and models.

My understanding which is often wrong is that the general number is around 59Rc but this may well have gone up or down year to year as they figured out what worked best. I *think* 440C can be pushed up in the 61Rc range but I'm not sure on that.

Limited sample size but I own a 2 dot 110, 2 different 2 dot 112s and a "script" 500, all in 440C and I can't tell the difference between them either on the stones or in use.
 
Thanks pinnah. I'm especially curious in different models received different heat treats depending on the knife design. For example, did the 124 receive a slightly lower heat treat with the possibility that the knife might be used for light chopping?
 
pinnah said:
According to this page, Paul Bos was doing the heat treat in the late 50s.
http://www.buckknives.com/about/the-people-behind-buck/

I too would be interested in seeing the Rc numbers for the different years and models.

My understanding which is often wrong is that the general number is around 59Rc but this may well have gone up or down year to year as they figured out what worked best. I *think* 440C can be pushed up in the 61Rc range but I'm not sure on that.

Limited sample size but I own a 2 dot 110, 2 different 2 dot 112s and a "script" 500, all in 440C and I can't tell the difference between them either on the stones or in use.
Click to expand...

The way I read it Paul has been "heat treating since 1956" but not necessarily for Buck.
 
Badhammer, read further down. It states that he started doing Buck customs in the late 50s. Obviously, that doesn't answr the question for production knives.
 
I do not have my notes so, I cannot say if it was at the Federal Blvd. location or Magnolia Ave. as either had enough sq.ft.. That Buck's heat treating was brought 'in house'. However, a sensible heat treater would NOT take a remelt stock bar of 440C to 61 RC. 58rc would be a good, reasonable level for a production knife. 59 rc is the maxium I would take it. Which I think Buck used caution and was conservative toward their approach with this steel. Which I agree with. As some customers did crazy things with them. At Paul's advice Buck invested a lot in heat treating equipment (for the cryogenic treatment) at the Weld Blvd. loacation in El Cajon. Thus, pioneered a cryogenic treatment on their blades --- even well, before that facility. DM
 
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I wonder if Buck quit doing the nail cutting demonstration when they dropped 440C. With a Carbon content of 0.95-1.20%, 440C can be taken to a higher HRC than lower Carbon, 400 series stainless steels.
 
True, looking at that element alone. Still, it's the high chromium that contributes to brittleness in this steel. The Powdered version of 440XH can be taken higher. DM
 
Spyderco has a 440XH Manix 2 on the drawing board. The 1.6% Carbon in 440XH is still about 1/2 of what's in ZDP 189. 64 HRC is supposed to be the limit for 440XH. ZDP 189 is often run at 67HRC. If I were doing a nail cutting demonstration with 440C, I would use an obtuse edge angle such as found on a cold chisel.
 
You guys are all looking at the blade hardness and I was wondering about the bolt....ha

300
 
From Buck literature in 1978 concerning bolt cutting.....

Donotchopnailsorbolts1978_zps0f4446ee.jpg
 
I've taken an old 2 dot 110 and put a convex edge on it,then proceeded to cut spikes in half by pounding it with a hammer,while I wouldnt reccommend this,it was a old worn blade and I wanted to do this for a long time,spike number 9 killed the knife,the lock bar failed,which I expected it would much sooner,it did not break the lock bar,just bent it.the blade is still useable and you wouldn't guess it's cut spikes in half,only light chipping.i think their heat treating of 440c was the best,420 does not compare
 
As 300 indicated, the hardness of the bolt matters A Lot. On a railroad spike this is indicated by the little dash lines on the head. Case hardened bolts should not be used. Still, this is not our question. DM
 
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