7 December,1941, + 1400 hours EST

uncle Alan

uncle Alan

Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
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It was a balmy Sunday afternoon in Wilmington,N.C. We kids were playing kick-the-can in the middle of 6th street . Mom & I were visiting in town that day. She came out on our friend's porch & called us over. As we gathered ,our friend raised the livingroom window & turned up her radio voulme......

" THIS is NOT a drill--THIS is NOT a drill ! The Japanese are attacking Pearl Harbor !"

This was repeated many times & live announcers were screaming garbled reports of death & destruction .
Monday the military recuiters were swamped !


Fast forward to the Twin Towers . The death toll far surpassed Pearl Harbor's. The attack was NOT directed at our military but at civilians .

Are we as determined to fight this new,lethal enemy ? We are bogged down in political bullshix . Our military is attacked by us as well as the terrorists .

What is wrong with America ? We must stand up to this as a UNITED States or we will die !

A voice in the wilderness....... Uncle Alan :mad:
 
Several weeks ago sunday was the aniversary of the surrender of Japan. I didn't know that. I was listening to the local jazz station and sorting laundry. As they do on Sundays, they were playing old stuff and I was enjoying it but lamenting that the recordings were so scratchy. Suddenly, the music stopped. An unfamiliar announcer came on. "We interrupt our regular programming to bring you this flash bulletin. This just in over our special line direct from the Whitehouse in Washington DC. It reads: Flash stop Japan surrenders stop war over stop. Ladies and gentlemen, we believe that this does mean that the war is over. Yes, it's just coming over all the wires now. Japan has unconditionally surrendered. The war is over. The world is at peace. We have just received another flash. It reads: Flash stop General McCarthor appoint supreme commander over Japan emperor stop." I realized the music had been so scratchy because they were replaying the original recording from that day. What an amazing thing.
 
The military forces of a soveriegn nation attacked our military forces. (Doing a fair bit of "collateral" damage as well....) This in a scenario where we had already entered into declared war against the attacking nation's allies in Europe.

This "sneak attack" rightly enraged the American public and resulted in a prompt declaration of war, which was fully supported.

The 9/11 attack was carried out by a shadowy group of terrorists aligned with no nation, but rather an ideological cause. Their location, makeup, intent, and resources of this group were largely a mystery to the American public. (and has remained so to this day)

Our military forces are portrayed by the administration as being involved in the war against these forces, but the situation in Iraq is certainly not so clear-cut. (to put things very very diplomatically indeed)

We see the search for Bin Laden and his followers and lieutenants increasingly on the back burner, or being carried out by proxies.
We see large expenditures of money for "homeland defense" being misused or squandered on pork-barrel projects.
We see the 9/11 commission just yesterday saying flatly that America is virtually no safer since that event, and the commission giving a failing grade to virtually every aspect of the effort to increase security.
We see the vaunted homeland defense organization fail miserably in it's attempts to handle a natural disaster, and wonder what response they could muster against a truly horrific terrorist attack.

Little wonder that many Americans have their doubts.
 
Hiroshima & then Nagasaki were A-bombed .That got their attention .

In the military,a few years later,I was privvy to a thumbnail glimpse of our invasion strategy. Our casualties were guesstimated to be around 500,000 or more .
Before shipping home in December '53 , I had dinner & drinks with a Japanese business man . I kept my conversation neutral but he wanted to discuss the A-bombing . Did I ever get a surprise ! He said it was the right thing .
They had trained the civilians to fight with anything available. Farmers with pitchforks,children with bamboo spears.....

He said the bombing was a cheap trade-off because their population would have fought to the death. These civilians were actually having drills,like our military basic training . Figure that mentality.
Before parting,he revealed that he had been a Colonel in the Imperial army.

Today,there are those that call Truman a War Criminal for sanctioning the bombs . There was fierce resistance to displaying " Enola Gay " just recently .

Times have really changed in my lifetime....


Uncke Alan
 
I agree on the use of the atomic bombs; the invasion of Japan would have been horrific in terms of casualties on both sides.

I saw an interesting tidbit lately; some historians are of the opinion that the Japanese surrender was not prompted so much by the "bomb", but by the declared entry of Russia into the campaign.
The Japanese were by this time well familiar with how the Soviets had treated Germany on their way to Berlin, and did not want to fall prey to similar atrocities. The Russians had little love for the Japanese....
It was felt that surrender to the Americans would (hehe-and did) result in a better post-war situation.

Havn't done any follow-up research on the idea, but it seems reasonable.
 
The casualties would have been horrific without Fat Man and Little Boy!
Secondly,consider Japan's economic and social status in the world today.
 
mwerner said:
I agree on the use of the atomic bombs; the invasion of Japan would have been horrific in terms of casualties on both sides.

I saw an interesting tidbit lately; some historians are of the opinion that the Japanese surrender was not prompted so much by the "bomb", but by the declared entry of Russia into the campaign.
The Japanese were by this time well familiar with how the Soviets had treated Germany on their way to Berlin, and did not want to fall prey to similar atrocities. The Russians had little love for the Japanese....
It was felt that surrender to the Americans would (hehe-and did) result in a better post-war situation.

Havn't done any follow-up research on the idea, but it seems reasonable.
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Very good point that is new to me.


The Russians occupied the Kuriles,North & East of Hokkaido Japan at wars end. A friend of mine was in an Airborne RCT on Hokkaido . [ 187th ? ]They were looking for our POWs that worked the coal mines. After searching the island,they were directed to the Kuriles that Russia had occupied. Now, I do not know the interval between war's end & their search but they were denied access to the islands. He said they made a surprise jump,had a small firefight & searched the place. No Americans were found but they rescued many Japanese fishermen that had been captured. Friend has recently died.

There is NO record of this that I can find .

Uncle Alan
 
uncle Alan said:
Hiroshima & then Nagasaki were A-bombed .That got their attention .

In the military,a few years later,I was privvy to a thumbnail glimpse of our invasion strategy. Our casualties were guesstimated to be around 500,000 or more .
Before shipping home in December '53 , I had dinner & drinks with a Japanese business man . I kept my conversation neutral but he wanted to discuss the A-bombing . Did I ever get a surprise ! He said it was the right thing .
They had trained the civilians to fight with anything available. Farmers with pitchforks,children with bamboo spears.....

He said the bombing was a cheap trade-off because their population would have fought to the death. These civilians were actually having drills,like our military basic training . Figure that mentality.
Before parting,he revealed that he had been a Colonel in the Imperial army.

Today,there are those that call Truman a War Criminal for sanctioning the bombs . There was fierce resistance to displaying " Enola Gay " just recently .

Times have really changed in my lifetime....


Uncke Alan
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Regarding Operations Olympic and Coronet(The planned invasions of Kyushu and Honshu):

The Japanese guessed we would invade Kyushu first and shifted 900,000 troops to the southern island. The Japanese homeland defense plan, Operation Ketsu-go, ramped up the defenses of Japan, their industrial output, and cancelled school to prepare to defend the homeland and the honor of the Emperor. Kyushu's population nuumbered over 10 million civilians who were ready and willing to die in the empire's defense as they did on Saipan, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. We anticipated a defensive force of only 300,000 and would have suffered far more loss of life than we did at Okinawa where we lost 13,000 souls against a defending force of 110,000 that fought with such intensity almost all (107,000) were killed along with 100,000 civilians who lost their lives.

We would also have seen more use of atomic weaponry had Japan not capitulated. The fearsome power of the "atom bomb" and the little known dangers it possessed gave the US a sense of hubris in having sole claim on the "ultimate weapon". Truman was advised there would be 10 - 14 weapons available by the planned November invasion and field commanders were given permission to utilize them tactically to soften the beaches and other targets on Kyushu barely ahead of our landing forces.

In the weeks before Operation Olympic was approved, the War Department ordered 500,000 Purple hearts indicating we expected very heavy casualties. The Department of Defense still has 120,000 of these Purple Hearts left on hand after the Korean War, Vietnam, Just Cause, Grenada, Desrt Storm, and the Iraq campaigns - a rather sobering reminder of what we were about to face before the decision to use atomic weapons.
 
My Grandfather was the Third U boat to hit the beach on D-Day. Omaha Beach. He never spoke of it except for one time..and when he told me about that day he cried. As a small boy of about 9 I was terrified that my Grandpa would cry. But he told me the story of how it was....

His group of Uboats were to hit the beach and pull metal grates into the surf so that the tanks would not bog down in the sand. His U boat was the only surviving Boat. Several were hit and sunk with withering 88MM cannon fire. the Boat next to his opened staring down the muzzle of a MG-42 all 16 aboard were killed.

My Grand Fathers boat he told me also opened in front of a Machine gun but because of the angle of the boat and the pill box the German Gunner could not lift the gun to point into the boat so they survived the unloading.

He remembered the bodies floating in the water wearing yellow life preservers. He remembered wading ashore and asking if it was raining and the chap next to him saying " No those are bullets."

He remembers laying on the beach as the 88s pounded craters in the beach..the machine guns raking anything that moved and suddenly looking over into this little bush and seeing a sparrow singing at the top of his lungs. My Grand father said that he thought " This is insane..here we are killing each other and dying and this bird is singing like there is nothing happening." He wondered if he was losing his mind.

anyway...Those are the reasons why we stay the course today.
 
My great uncle was a radio operator in the Navy in WW2 on Normandy. He says he remembers looking down on the deck of his ship, watching all of the soldiers going over the side into the boats on the side of the ship. Everyone was happy, at least as happy as they can be going to war, and were generally in a good mood. He said that he also watched those same soldiers come back over the sides into the ship in bags.
 
My Dad was at Pearl,when they hit,many yrs.ago I interviewed him for a school report,only time he discussed WW2.I got an earful .I remember some article written about the INHUMANE THING we did!!Dad then told me about THE BATAAN DEATH MARCH!Most today don't even know what it is.Dad ended it by stating"your "generation doesn't have the right to judge YOU ALL weren't there!!People at that time signed up in mass,different time! Right after the Towers,saw a TV,Marines visited a campus to see about vol.MOST said,NO WAY!!I don't like the military.WE SHOULD SIT DOWN & NEGOCIATE,NOT INVADE!!TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT!(PUKE). now we fight a WAR with rules,IF WE DRAW FIRE FROM A MOSQUE,WE CAN'T TAKE IT OUT,WE MIGHT OFFEND THE MUSLUM RELIGION!! All the media that does NOT support our troops Buy a diff.paper!How long do you think this WAY of fighting would continue IF we dropped TEAMS over the BORDERS & when their fighters run for border safety WE NAILED THEM OR PURSUED "THEN"NAILED THEM!!THE MUSLEM NATIONS COULD YELL ALL THEY WANT.Tell them TIT FOR TAT.YOU SEND WE CHASE & DISTROY!
Sorry for rant,
Jim Clifton
 
I think our rules of engagement allow our troops to take out a mosque if live fire is coming from it.
 
greasemanelli1 said:
:thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks to all the vets of the Allied forces!
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Up at 5 am for coffee & a smoke. Lowered flag to half staff. Woke wife at 6:30 to head to a large fleamarket near Daytona. Picked up the " Korea Vet " cap on the way out . I wanted to buy one [ 1 ] item,a used 12 gauge for our son-in-law. They just built in the boonies & needed a snake gun.
After entering the vendors area a man said "Thank you for serving" ,I was startled & mumbled a reply. It happened repeatedly & I started choking up as I replied.I made my purchase & stood on the sidelines waiting patiently ,as married men are trained to do.
Saw a Viet vet & we exchanged "I was there " stories & he noticed my Canadian crutch . Told him I was disabled & he said he was drawing 15 percent. Since I am a prior commander of a DAV chapter & figured he might need helping ,I asked what his problem was.
'Copter pilot -- shot down twice ,wounded,nerve damage in part of one hand,resulting from one crash,2 fused vertabre from a crash......
The most shocking was when he pulled up his pants legs & showed me his legs.Both legs were tan,tapioca colored with lesions ,blisters ,oozes--- Almost got sick looking . AGENT ORANGE did this & he is drawing a lousy 15 percent !
I read him off & sent him to an excellent VA service officer . With his injuries & inability to get & hold a job he deserves more than around $200 a month . The full shot is almost $2,300 & he has earned it.
Our conversation was interrupted several times with folks thanking us for serving. At one time I teared up. A lady wanted to know if I knew her husband or his unit & she was using past tense.....

God Bless America !


Uncle Alan
 
Has anyone else noticed that the flags aren't flown at half-mast in public places on D-Day, anymore?!?! I am utterly sickened by this... :barf: :grumpy:
 
Trout Tamer said:
Has anyone else noticed that the flags aren't flown at half-mast in public places on D-Day, anymore?!?! I am utterly sickened by this... :barf: :grumpy:
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Isn't that why you have Memorial Day?
 
Nordic Viking said:
Isn't that why you have Memorial Day?
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We also have MLK Jr. day ,Independence Day,[ 4 July ] Veterans Day [ formerly Armistice Day ] ,President's birthdays .......

Most of my generation fly flags & the younger people ask why ? Not a clue !

I half-staff my flag on 9--11 too.

Uncle Alan:)
 
Isn't that why you have Memorial Day?
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It is. However, for as long as I've been alive (all of 27 years), the flag has always been flown at half-mast on Dec. 7. That is, until a few years ago. It is a tradition that I, personally, am loathe to lose. I see it as a very real loss of gratitude among the current generations for the sacrifice that past generations made.
 
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