8000 grit waterstone overkill for pocket knives? + other questions

A

AnotherAnon

Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
20
Ok, so I've never sharpened knives by hand on bench stones before... I have read up on it heavily for a while now and I'm almost ready to start making purchases but I do have a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers to (searching google, forums, etc). I may just be looking in the wrong places so sorry if I'm one of those morons that can't seem to use the search feature lol... Anyway, I have a few pocket knives and a benchmade model 51 BK that I absolutely love but is horribly dull now. I'm looking at investing in getting some cheap combination japanese waterstones for sharpening and want to know if bringing a D2 tool steel knife like the model 51 up through 1000-8000 grits is overkill or not.

I also have a few questions about the setup I'm looking at getting... I have a bunch of knives I'd like to sharpen (ranging from 440 stainless to 1095 high carbon). The stones I want to get are a DMT fine diamond stone, 1000/4000/6000/8000 grit japanese waterstones, as well as a strop since my brother is getting a straight razor. I don't have any knives that need major reconstruction surgery so I don't think a course/medium diamond stone are necessary yet. Going back to my original question, is finishing a knife like the model 51 with a 8000 grit stone and then stropping just going to give it way too fragile of an edge that will roll easily or is it worth doing? It's rarely used for anything tougher than zip ties, thin plastic packages, cardboard, etc. is it fine to use steels ranging from 440 stainless to 1095/D2 on diamond stones and waterstones (I only plan on going up to 1000 grit on stainless since people seem to say that's just about the reasonable limit for stainless)?

Is the cheapest way to flatten a waterstone to use a granite tile with sandpaper on it or does the cost of using up sandpaper make it worth buying a DMT D8C? Also, have you noticed any real difference in the results?

Being a vegan, I try to avoid buying any animal based products when possible. So, I'm looking for a cheap synthetic strop instead of a leather one. Do you think something like this would be ok? http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Strops-P34C11.aspx They also mention that its made to be used with their aluminum oxide powder but that's probably just to sell more of their stuff right? So would it be fine to use other compounds?

Any help/opinions would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance :)

PS: If I didn't post this in the appropriate section, let me know.
 
Personally I go diamond all the way up to 8000 just because Diamond cuts everything, doesn't wear out, and I prefer to stick with one type of stone for the consistency. I am familiar with how diamond cuts, and I like it.
 
i use japanese water stones up to 6000 then strop on newspaper then some compound on a flat board i have shaved my face with a knife from using this method it does not matter what steels you use and the 1k stainless rule is bs i take all of my knives through this method and have never had a problem
 
Sounds like you're getting fed some bad information about stainless, especially with a statement as broad as that. Modern stainless should hold up to carbon in just about every way.

If you're willing to make the investment, I would get all diamond stones, and strop everything to boot. Other than the cost, there isn't a single downside that I know of to diamond stones. They cut so, so much faster than water stones, and just as clean. Tack on that they last forever, are pretty much impossible to break, and don't raise any slurry, and diamond stones should be pretty appealing. Especially with a steel as notoriously wear resistant and hard to sharpen as D2, you won't regret the upgrade. I've never heard of anyone using a synthetic strop, but it should be fine- I've heard of people using everything from strips of denim to balsa wood with success, so something purpose-built for the task should do the job nicely.
 
First, the strop you are looking at is worthless. Trust me.

Next, the DMT fine does not fit into the line up of stone you are looking at. A 1k waterstone is coarser.

Now I'm guessing your looking at king stones? Don't, you can get better for the money and you don't need so many fine stones either.

I would say you still need to do more searching, you have been given some bad info along the way.
 
yeah, the research i've done has definitely given me a number of conflicting answers to questions. Hence the reason I posted on here. Some people say you can jump from a 600 grit diamond stone to a 8000 grit diamond stone without problems while others make it seem like skipping more than 3k at a time is insane and you need a ridiculous number of stones to sharpen knives properly. I get a ton of different info on strops as well. Some people make it seem like anything other than top quality leather strops is a waste of time while others say you can strop on just about anything and it doesn't really matter. I've even been told that diamond stones don't last as long as waterstones, which sounds crazy to me (most people seem to believe that they practically last forever and yes, what I read was specifically talking about DMT stones). Honestly, it kind of seems like I just have to learn some things through trial and error. I just wish trial and error was a bit cheaper...

I'm thinking about simplifying this and just getting a small set of diamond stones and a strop. What about getting DMT fine, extra fine, and extra-extra fine stones? Some places say that the fine diamond stone is enough to even work out small chips in blades while other places insist on having course and extra course stones for that... So is it safe to assume that I don't need to go below a fine diamond stone to sharpen knives that are dull but not damaged? Any types of steel that I shouldn't sharpen on diamond stones?

again, any extra info/input you guys have will be appreciated.
 
It's always about the right tools for the job.

Diamond stones are intended to be used with highly wear resistant steels usually starting with 4% vanadium. The more wear resistant the better they work. On the other side, when the steel is not wear resistant and full of different alloy elements diamond stones rip and tear at the steel because it resist so little to the hardness of the diamond. Unless most of your steels are considered "Super steels" I'd hold off on diamond hones.

Waterstones will cover the majority of sharpening needs and from the steels you have listed they would be a better choice. The choices are endless when it comes to waterstones but I will give you my standard recommendation. Arashiyama 1k and 6k, for a coarse hone you really can pick about any just get a decent brand. Shouldn't need more than thee stones.
 
i personally use kings and ice bear and have never had a problem with them bu they are rather soft harder then the nortons but still soft if your not cautious you can easily take a chunk out of your stones murray carter has dvds on sharpening with jap water stones on his sight cartercutlery.com i would invest in those and he sells stones on his sight as well.

as far as sharpening goes you wont find a more personal thing ever in knives or tools every one does it differently and every one swears by their method so take advice in bits and pieces and dont get over whelmed by the amount of info thats bound to get thrown at you over the course of the next few days btw theirs one standard test that no one can say is bs.....and that is IF you can SHAVE with your knife then it is sharp no doubt in my mind it might take a little bit more to get their on different steels but that rule stands fore every one of those steels you have
 
I usually go to a 6k water stone finish and a 1micron diamond strop on my necker, and i wear that every day...holds up pretty well. That is my general sharpening technique for my kitchen knives also. Just got my first straight razor, so i need another strop and a 15k stone :)
 
knifenut1013 said:
It's always about the right tools for the job.

Diamond stones are intended to be used with highly wear resistant steels usually starting with 4% vanadium. The more wear resistant the better they work. On the other side, when the steel is not wear resistant and full of different alloy elements diamond stones rip and tear at the steel because it resist so little to the hardness of the diamond. Unless most of your steels are considered "Super steels" I'd hold off on diamond hones.

Waterstones will cover the majority of sharpening needs and from the steels you have listed they would be a better choice. The choices are endless when it comes to waterstones but I will give you my standard recommendation. Arashiyama 1k and 6k, for a coarse hone you really can pick about any just get a decent brand. Shouldn't need more than thee stones.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, I didn't know that about diamond stones. I was actually looking for your sig so I could post the links- those are some great guides, knifenut.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top