80crv2 short sword hardness ?

J

Justin Presson

Joined
Dec 4, 2013
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891
Hey guys I'm working on a short sword kind of wakizashi redneck knife.
Some of you know and have been following along on my YouTube channel.
I will be heat treating it soon and wanting to get some opinions on what RC to shoot for. I plan on this being a two handed chopper.
I have used this steel on small hunting knives but not for chopping.
Also if anyone has an edge thickness recommendation before sharpening...I'm all ears.
Im thinking .030 before sharpening and around 58rc?
Here is a pic of the knife.
Wakizashi https://imgur.com/gallery/gCRg1oV
Thanks for any info.
JP
 
Wld0NzI.jpg
 
IMHO, 58 is fine, but 60-61 with that steel is very very tough. Personally I would cut your .030” in half.

.015” prior to sharpening with a good flat grind and 60-61 HRC will work “most excellent!”

It was one of my first steels. Hunters and kitchen knives I keep hard 63HRC and around .005” prior to sharpening.

Normalize it first around 1650f with an air cool. Then a few thermal cycles around 1500f air cool, quench on last cycle. Harden around 1500f. Temper around 375-400.
 
I think you've got a pretty good plan with 58 and .030. If it were me I would sharpen it convex as well.
 
samuraistuart said:
IMHO, 58 is fine, but 60-61 with that steel is very very tough. Personally I would cut your .030” in half.

.015” prior to sharpening with a good flat grind and 60-61 HRC will work “most excellent!”
Click to expand...

I've had problems with 80CRV2 choppers that hardness wrinkling at the edge when tbe was less than .020.
 
kuraki said:
I think you've got a pretty good plan with 58 and .030. If it were me I would sharpen it convex as well.
Click to expand...

I plan to sharpen it convex on my grinder.
I made a chopper out of 1075 and took it to .20 before sharpening and had some chipping so took it back a bit and it seemed to hold up better so was thinking .30 but not positive.
I dont have a oven so plan to HT in my forge so could be a bit of a gamble on getting my hardness right.
 
samuraistuart said:
IMHO, 58 is fine, but 60-61 with that steel is very very tough. Personally I would cut your .030” in half.

.015” prior to sharpening with a good flat grind and 60-61 HRC will work “most excellent!”

It was one of my first steels. Hunters and kitchen knives I keep hard 63HRC and around .005” prior to sharpening.

Normalize it first around 1650f with an air cool. Then a few thermal cycles around 1500f air cool, quench on last cycle. Harden around 1500f. Temper around 375-400.
Click to expand...

Man that seems awfully thin for a chopper but again I do not have that much experience with this steel on larger knives.
 
I like that type blade at Rc 59/60.
I would go in the middle and make the edge about .020-.025", then convex to an edge.
Stuart's HT advice sound good.

The edge thickness depends on what use you will give it. If doing tatami mats and normal skill cutting, .015" before sharpening is good.
If doing rough chopping on brush and saplings, .030" is good. If doing general cutting on water bottles, mellons, cardboard boxes, bamboo, etc. .020-.025" is good.
 
If heat treating in a forge I would be more conservative with the geometry. “Conservative” May not be the right term. Allow a thicker geometry would be the best way of saying this. I could go on a political diatribe of what today’s “conservative” vs “liberal” is, but this isn’t the place.


Go with what Stacy said. Good numbers there.

I still am of the opinion of keeping steels at or above 60hrc and dialing in geometry to suit. If more impact resistance is warranted, use a steel that has a tougher reputation.
 
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Another question if you guys are still looking at this thread.
I was thinking about claying the spine for heat treat I know 80crv2 wont produce an amazing hamon but thought maybe it might give a hardening line and allow the spine to be a little softer.
Or should I through harden and go with it.
This size of blade is a little new to me so trying to get all the input I can, it is .210 thick stock if that matters.
Thanks
JP
 
Same advice here. A short sword is a beater. Harden fully and draw the spine with a torch.

This is one of those "Simple is Best" situations. A plain but sturdy handle and guard is far better than a fancy one that will get loose of broken.

Jut watch some FIF episodes and see how some really great makers learned that lesson the hard way.
 
I am not in love with soft spines on knives that are to take a lot of abuse. I haven't seen a toughness vs temper temp plot for 80CRV2, but I am guessing that with tight grain and good draw back on the spine, you would really struggle to damage the knife. With a clayed spine, hard use seems destined to take you into plastic deformation at some point.
 
kuraki said:
I wouldn't. If you want to draw back the spine do it after heat treat with the edge underwater.
Click to expand...
Thanks Kuraki for your input.

My gut tells me to harden it through after much thought and reading to. If this steel is as tough as people claim it should hold up to an ice block chop....right :)
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Same advice here. A short sword is a beater. Harden fully and draw the spine with a torch.

This is one of those "Simple is Best" situations. A plain but sturdy handle and guard is far better than a fancy one that will get loose of broken.

Jut watch some FIF episodes and see how some really great makers learned that lesson the hard way.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stacy, its a full tang knife so going to do a simple handle wrap on it and call it good.
 
I have been amazed that the folks on FIF don't make wrapped and epoxy impregnated handles more often. It is about as grippy and indestructible as it gets. Done with a fancier knotting and proper resin, it can be downright pretty.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have been amazed that the folks on FIF don't make wrapped and epoxy impregnated handles more often. It is about as grippy and indestructible as it gets. Done with a fancier knotting and proper resin, it can be downright pretty.
Click to expand...
I suspect that they don't because even 5m epoxy takes a while to fully cure. Even an hour in it will still be somewhat soft and gummy, making handle shaping a chore. I think you would need some really spot on time management to pull it off. I think you would need to enter the 2nd round with a nearly finished tang transition, immediately wrap, grind the blade for 2 hours, and finally use the last hour to reshape the handle. Maybe the room is warm enough that you could bump that timeline to the left a little bit, but I still think it would be tight.
 
Dry to the touch would be sufficient at the end of round two. However, I believe the reason you don't see it often is that there isn't a suitably low viscosity epoxy product available.
 
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