80mm Manix, Ultimate Hunter comparisons in detail

STR

STR

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I recently bought both the Ultimate Hunter designed by Llyod Pendleton and sold by Cold Steel, and the 80mm Manix designed by Eric Glesser and sold by Spyderco. I thought it would be an interesting comparison of these two since I consider both to be two of the best premium heavy duty back lock designed folders currently on the market at this writing.

Recently I've had the opportunity to get intimate with both of these as you can read on my forum here in the threads for them that I started.

I purchased both knives from www.NewGraham.com.

Price
The 80mm Manix ran me $118.68 before shipping.

The Ultimate Hunter ran me $62.50 before shipping.

Now lets look at what you get from each company in detail shall we.

Blade comparison

The Mini Manix as I like to call it over the 80mm designation, sports a 3.25" S30V blade and is made here in the USA in Golden Colorado.

The Ultimate Hunter sports a 3 and 7/16" blade of VG1 steel and is made in Japan.

Both knives have a choil built into them for being able to choke up on the grip to get better control of the point for detail work with the Ultimate Hunter having some grooves for grip on it while the Mini Manix is left smooth in the finger choil area.

Both have non sharpened serrations as they are referred to by Sal, and these are on the spine of the blade for thumb placement and the Ultimate Hunter has a set of grooves similar for the index finger placement toward the tip about midway down the blade.

The Mini Manix is a flat grind with a blade thickness at the spine of .153-.154 at the thickest point and tapers nicely to a good needle point in what I call a leaf shape blade.

The Ultimate Hunter has the classic Pendleton Drop Point blade and measures .156-.157 thick and remains fairly the same in thickness all the way down the spine through both sets of finger grip grooves with a thin hollow grind considering its a 5/32 thick blade and it comes to a point but not the needle like the Mini Manix.

The Mini Manix is ground thin in a nice taper as I mentioned and it comes to .018 right above the bevel in the back, and .022 middle, .024 tip.

The Ultimate Hunter comes to .020 back, .022 middle and the same for the tip.

Liners and Body of the folder

The Mini Manix has stainless liners with holes for weight reduction and overscales of G10 from the factory which bring it to a nice thin handle just shy of 1/2" thick with all four modes of carry for the pocket clip as total coverage for the options of carry convenience. The Mini Manix weighs in at 5.5 ounces from the factory. You might note that my knife pictured is not sporting those scales and liners anymore because I replaced them. You can see all about that in my forum. The closed length for the Mini Manix is approximately 4.5" with an OAL of 7.75".

The Ultimate Hunter comes with .077 thick aluminum liners with weight reduction holes drilled in them and overscales of Thermorun for some extremely comfortable grippy handles. The thickest point on the Ultimate Hunter in two places brings it handle thickness out to 3/4" with one mode of carry for the pocket clip which is tip up right hand carry. It weighs in a 4.6 ounces from the factory. Closed length is 5" and OAL is 8.5".

The Mini Manix has a stainless spring holder/rear spacer in the rear and a very good sized heavy duty spring on the .155 thick lockbar.

The Ultimate Hunter has an Aluminum spring holder/rear spacer. Quite thick and beefy though and it has to be since the spring in this UH is both thicker and wider, and also longer than the spring in the Mini Manix and is sitting on a lockbar .154-.155 thick.

The Mini Manix lockbar measures 62.61mm in length.

The Ultimate Hunter lockbar 67.31 mm long. Contact on both knives is extremely deep and should stand up to extreme uses compared to most folders of this type.

Both folders are mid locking type that are fairly easy to operate. One thing stands out when you first open them though. The Mini Manix is so much easier to flip open that it is really night and day. This Ultimate Hunter model requires a fairly seasoned thumb and the rounded factory thumb stud was soon replaced by this owner because it was very hard to catch on the first try. No such issues with the Mini Manix here.

Pivot details

Both knives sport washers with the Mini Manix washers being PB. slightly thicker and the Ultimate hunter a reddish clear plastic or teflon type material that is ultra thin. I have seen similar washers to these in the UH used by other Japanese contract knives and even some Spydercos.

The pivot barrel of the Mini Manix is the same as that used in the lockbar. Both are 5/32" diameter.

The UH has a metric size pivot that is closer to 3/16" in diameter but actually slightly larger. The lockbar on it is nearly a 5/32 but slightly larger also and I'm sure also metric.

Both knives offer a lot to the user.

With both you get good grippy scales. Strong locks, one hand opening and closing if need be, as well as the ability to carry with a pocket clip.

Conclusions

For the money difference you get easier opening, a slightly smaller length in the pocket, stainless liners, stainless spring holder, G10 scales, S30V blade steel, four way clip mount option, and a thinner profile in the pocket as well as one convenient T8 torx size needed for the entire knife but you do get a wider handle by going with the Mini Manix, to the point that depending on my selection of pants for the day, can cause me to have to extract the knife to dig deep for my keys. Also if its anything of value to you, the Mini Manix is made in the USA as I said above.

For the $ savings to go with the Ultimate Hunter you get a more difficult but negotiable one hand opening blade and, one mode of carry for the pocket clip only. You also have to step down to aluminum liners and and an aluminum spring holder, but a beefier spring, lockbar, and pivot barrel with a little bit lighter weight in the pocket but more thickess in the handle. Also the ThermoRun handles on the Ultimate Hunter are extremely comfortable to use and due the thickness it is comfortable folks, but they tend to really grip the pocket excessively making both sliding the knife on the pocket to seat the clip down all the way and extracting it very difficult to the point that its nearly ridiculous really. I had to spring my clip on this one out to where it stands off the body by about 1/4" and the knife still snags getting it on and off. I guess on the plus side there, you would have to work very hard to lose this knife but thats probably true with both since big knives do tend to be noticed.

Well, thats it. I thought it was an interesting chance to get some details out there for folks. Hope you enjoy it and that it comes in handy for someone in weighing their decision.

STR
 
Nice comparison. As always, you provide knowlegeable view.

How does the VG1 steel seem to you for edge retension and difficulty of obtaining a sharp edge? Not just in comparison to S30V, but in comparison to other common steels.

THANKS.
 
I can't say I've used it a lot as of yet. Its been apart in my shop while I attempt to rebuild the handle of it until today when I put it back together to use it some and carry. The VG1 appearance is so much like VG10 with that almost patterned damascene look to it that it must be similar. I've had some trouble tracking down the chart on this steel so I am not sure how far off it is from VG10. Being that this is a Lynn Thompson change I can only assume it is not quite up there in carbon or vanadium, and other elements as VG10 is. In other words its probably a step down from VG10 steel but for all I know it is a step up.

I have sliced hard and soft wood with it today off and on and it slices amazingly well for such a thick blade. The five slices in 1/2" hemp rope I did with it were very easy, comfortable cuts and it can probably hold its own in comfort with the best I've used there because of the wide soft handles that are very grippy. I like the blade a lot but as for the answers to if the AUS8 is better I can't say. It is probably tougher than VG1 but don't hold me to that as its just a guess.

One thing about it, its pretty easy for Lynn to make claims about it that we as end line users and makers have to sit back and just read wondering about regarding validity and accuracy because with limited people and companies using this steel its hard to disprove anything he says or counter it when you can't find out much about it. I'm certain this was probably the reason he selected it above all other reasons.

At this point in time I would have to say conservatively that the jury is still out on whether this VG1 is a better steel than the AUS8 was.

I can say that I seriously doubt if it would keep up with the S30V in this Mini Manix in a side by side comparision or cutting contest.

STR
 
Thanks. I looked till I gave up for that info. It looks like I called it right. VG1 is the base for the rest of the VG steels after that. Lynn stayed in character as I suspected. :D

It may be a better cutting performer than AUS8 with more carbon but it has no vanadium like VG10 so I would imagine its not as fine grained and probably not going to perform as well but its probably tougher than I thought it was. Looks like its got a fair amount of Chromium and some Moly, in there too over AUS8 so that should be a good move then and its still an ingot steel which I have always been told is better. Not sure why. I would imagine forgeability..

STR
 
Grear review, Steve! :thumbup:

I would like to defend VG-1 as an excellent high-end choice. Nenohi uses it in their Nenox S Series of chefs knives (very pretty, very expensive) and the steel is the one thing that all the Nenox lovers and haters both agree is simply great. My guess is that LT either got a good price on it or its heat-treat made it less expensive than AUS-8A. Now that Nenohi is moving from VG-1 to VG-10 (their maker has put out another knife in VG-10 with a special heat-treat and its success probably prompted the move), it might be the great price issue.

In any case, VG-1 is a premium steel, even if the most hated man in knife business uses it.
 
Thanks Thom. Good to know. I love the look of it and have had some VG10 blades with this same patterned look in the grain that I find quite appealing.

STR
 
I have a couple of Cold Steel kitchen knives in VG-1.
They're excellent cutters and priced reasonably.
 
Thanks STR, rifon2, and thombrogan for that info on VG1.
 
What, no destruction testing to see which lock is stronger? Just Kidding! :D Great, thorough review. It would be interesting to hear how the steels compare if you get a chance, as far as edge retention, attainable sharpness, and microchipping, if any.

Mike
 
STR,
Great review! Do you have any idea as to why CS went with Aluminum liners on the UH, as opposed to Stainless Steel? I was thinking for extra corrosion resistance, but please correct me if I'm wrong. How do you think the Al liners compare to SS, strengthwise?

Thanks,
3G
 
gunmike1 said:
It would be interesting to hear how the steels compare if you get a chance, as far as edge retention, attainable sharpness, and microchipping, if any.
Click to expand...

VG1 is designed to have a higher edge stability than VG10 so comparisons would be similar to AEBL vs 154CM, but not as great in magnitude.

-Cliff
 
Well, the thicker liners make up a bit for something but both knives are incredibly well built, high tolerance, and strong. I think the weight was a factor in the decision, cost too probably as I'm sure going aluminum reduced it there as well for them.

Obviously I am not too awful concerned about strength issues with aluminum since I redid my mini Manix in 1/8" thick slabs of aluminum as well. The aircraft grade 6061 aluminum is quite strong in these applications I think and can certainly stand up to the rigors of use well.

Same thickness stainless would be stronger, and heavier. The thinner liners on the Spyderco are probably still stronger than these in the UH, but by how much is anyones guess. I have read somewhere the numbers for these metals and can't find the site. If I run across it again I will try to post that when and if I find it. In the mean time if someone else knows of it feel free to add it. What I am talking about had info regarding the compression strength, shear strengths, % differences in thicknesses vs aluminum, titanium and stainless, and visible charts showing how thick a piece of aluminum would have to be to be as strong as a certain thickness of titanium, vs a certain thickness of stainless, and the weight differences as well.

As I recall it seems it was an aero space industry chart of some kind.

STR
 
Steve, thank you. I always appreciate your unbiased reviews and have made purchasing decisions based on them in the past. After this one I will most likely buy my first Cold Steel knife.
 
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