Spot on Mikel_24. Good points Neal70. And everyone else for that matter.
Thank you all for the the insightful comments, differing perspectives and varied input from everyone... the insights here are what make this a great learning tool...
I agree, great posts in this thread. Since no one knows everything, even the most learned in one area can learn from someone else in other areas.
Clearly the approach has changed
If by that you mean the tool choices, I agree. As I pointed out earlier the tool choices have changed dramatically in my lifetime. Or that might have been in a different thread. Anyhow, they have!
The biggest aspect that has changed from where I stand is the lack of understanding. In the 70s craftsmanship in every task was valued. In the 80s it seemed like that was slipping. From the mid 90s on it has seemed to me that craftsmanship has held little value to most. Oh, there will always be some who see the value. Just my perception based on what I observe in the field, on forums, etc.
Seems to me that material (wood) selection criteria is especially lacking these days.
along with the necessity.
To a degree that is true. I can see how in a school environment the natural resources would eventually be stripped by a succession of classes. There above all other situations it would make the most sense to teach split wood techniques. The farther east of the Mississippi one goes, the greater the competition for resources tends to be. So that would be another factor to consider.
However, solo or in a small group and hiking in an area that does not see a lot of use (might be high traffic but most others are merely hiking through rather than using found resources) there will be plenty of found materials that will be quicker, easier and better to use than split wood. At least here in the Upper MidWest.
We are not in as an agrarian environment, nor many as resourceful as our predecessors.
More's the pity, hey? It seems to me they went hand in hand. Therein is exactly why I believe that those of us who know and do should be calling out the erroneous teachings of others. In other words, since so few these days have the experiential knowledge to discern the ins and outs of various approaches, it becomes all the more our duty to be the watchmen on the wall and sound the alarm. Never to suppress knowledge, never to force others to our point of view. Only to help keep the knowledge that actually works alive.
Most people are unaware of the origin and persistence of many outdoorsmanship myths. Some fellows and I on another forum years ago traced back some myths to the late 1800s. Roughly every 25 years they would crop up again, often quoted nearly verbatim. The problem is, none of us could make them work. Indeed, we concluded that they had never worked and that none of the authors had ever bothered to successfully perform them. And yet they published them as though they were established fact!!!
I think there can be no argument, indeed Waveone your post acknowledges it, that we have lost many of the skills and abilities that mankind once possessed. Think about how much the Native Americans, Fur Traders, etc knew about wilderness living skills. Generations of every day their very lives depending upon it!! I feel like it is a tragedy that we are not recording and spreading as much of that knowledge as possible. Think about how much time is being "wasted" (can dirt time ever *really* be a waste??) rediscovering what was once known.
I have spent a lot of time with books from the 17th, 18th, early 19th centuries and from the 1950s. When learning skills from those sources we quickly see that much of it assumes knowledge most do not have. Most of the descriptions are brief and poor requiring much experimentation to be able to perform consistently. Wouldn't it be a huge help to be able to pick up a book or watch a video and have a high probability of the accounts being factual, the skills as taught actually working, etc? Sadly that is not the case. Further, would it not be helpful to be able to find detailed, precise, factual knowledge about skills you are learning?
Yet I would love to know more about your position on use of curls and baton- ing with a knife and so forth.
What exactly are you looking for? If you have specific questions, that would greatly help.
My general thoughts are:
It is my observation that prior to about 2003, batoning with a knife was relatively unheard of and would have been ridiculed severely. Tool choices were considered important before then. Now batoning with a knife is the most popular and commonly shown method for splitting wood for fire prep. Does it work? Yup. Have I seen and heard of a lot of knives being broken this way? Yepper. Are there better tools for the job? Oh yeah, definitely. Pretty hilarious in my opinion to watch people in vids batoning with a knife while there is an axe, hatchet or tomahawk and plenty of suitable wood for making wedges with in frame. Nothing says clueless like that! Punching holes in the lids of Altoids tins would be a close runner up though.
Further, that effort and discussion about material selection was common back in the day. Now we very rarely hear it even glossed over. Indeed, there seems to be a machismo about finding the worst examples of the worst species then batoning them in the worst way.
Speaking of, we frequently hear people state "if you only had a knife, you would have to baton with it" who then go on to just hammer the heck out a knife through nasty wood. To that I say, not necessarily. To me it would become vastly more important to figure out if I **really needed** to baton. All knives will break from batoning. All. It is only ever a matter of when. Anyhow, if I concluded that yes, it is needed in this situation, my next highest concern would be to WISELY baton. Hey, if I'm stuck deep in the wilderness and my only metal tool is a knife, then that knife would instantly become my most treasured possession. Material selection and task methodology would be utmost in my mind in such a scenario. Yet these yahoos are teaching people the worst ways on the worst materials for the worst reasons. Someone ought to point out that the emperor has no clothes.
Allow me to add here that if someone wants to baton with a knife, hey it's your knife do whatever you want. I am merely passing on the hard won knowledge and perspective that I have accumulated over decades of studying and doing in the hope that being aware of more options will result in more enjoyable and safer outdoors experiences for everyone.
Perhaps duxdog could expand on the last post.
Happy to help if I can. Thanks for asking. How was that? Y'all have any other specific requests on aspects that require elaboration?
