9Cr13Mov with Cobalt?

Chronovore

Chronovore

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I'm very familiar with 8Cr13Mov, 8Cr14Mov, and 9Cr18Mov. I've had various budget knives in those steels over the years. They were all kind of "okay". Then I got knives in 9Cr18Mov from Civivi and Real Steel. The difference was huge. With a decent heat treatment and good cutting geometry, 9Cr18Mov is easily in the same ballpark as Acuto 440 and 14C28N.

So I see some new knives on BladeHQ. They're made of 9Cr13Mov. I wasn't familiar so I looked it up. Going across the comparison graph, it was sort of ho-hum versus the above steels. Then I notice a lone 1% in cobalt. That's different.

Now I'm curious. Does anyone have experience with this steel? How does it compare to those other Chinese budget steels? Could this be another fun budget surprise like a well-done 9Cr18Mov?
 
dirc said:
it's basically a cheaper version(copy) of vg-10 ... but cobalt is an interesting element in steel ... I'd stick with vg10 personally
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I really like VG-10. It's one of those "next level up" steels on the budget spectrum. I prefer it over Chinese D2 and I'm usually happy to see it on designs I like in the $50-100 range. I've recently been introduced to N690 and so far, I like it. That's the extent of my experience with cobalt steels but that's got me interested. I sometimes see VG-10 used as a benchmark for comparing 9Cr18Mov, Acuto 440, and 14C28N; which are all steels I like at the next level down. That's also driving my interest a little here. I was hoping to find another good one at that tier.

BTW, here is an elemental comparison between 8Cr13Mov, 9Cr13Mov, and 9Cr18Mov. (Note that the graph is generous for possible ranges.)

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=8Cr13Mov, 9Cr13Mov, 9cr18mov&hrn=1&gm=0

Here is a comparison between 9Cr13Mov and VG-10.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=9Cr13Mov,VG-10 Cobalt&ni=,6564&hrn=1&gm=0
 
Basically looks like "VG-9"
if that were a thing...

On paper, with a good heat treat it should hold up pretty well with the others in that list you compiled... probably not much "WOW" factor, but certainly should make for a very adequate knife steel...

The biggest concern with all those chinese steels isn't the ingredients list themselves, but rather who is making it, who are they making it for, and who is doing the heat treat? If it's made for a reputable company, (like CIVIVI or even say if Kershaw would use it), then usually the production & heat treat parameters are more tightly controlled, then say a Schrade, which for half the price can be hit or miss...
 
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strategy9 said:
... The biggest concern with all those chinese steels isn't the ingredients list themselves, but rather who is making it, who are they making it for, and who is doing the heat treat? If it's made for a reputable company, (like CIVIVI or even say if Kershaw would use it), then usually the production & heat treat parameters are more tightly controlled, then say a Schrade, which for half the price can be hit or miss...
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Schrade is actually my go-to example for bad 9Cr18Mov. I remember when I first saw 9Cr18Mov. It was on a Schrade. I'd been used to carrying 8Cr13Mov so I expected a big step up. I was sorely disappointed. I was less educated at the time so I just wrote off 9Cr18Mov and went back to my Kershaws. A few years went by. Then I got a Civivi. My mind was blown. I got another Civivi and a Real Steel. Now 9Cr18Mov is my most-carried blade steel.

It seems to me that some steels are more variable than others. I don't know if it's because some steels are easier to work with or less sensitive to technique than others. For instance, 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to have as big of a swing between makers. However, the difference in 9Cr18Mov between Schrade and Civivi is night and day. Chinese D2 is another one that seems to vary.
 
Chronovore said:
Schrade is actually my go-to example for bad 9Cr18Mov. I remember when I first saw 9Cr18Mov. It was on a Schrade. I'd been used to carrying 8Cr13Mov so I expected a big step up. I was sorely disappointed. I was less educated at the time so I just wrote off 9Cr18Mov and went back to my Kershaws. A few years went by. Then I got a Civivi. My mind was blown. I got another Civivi and a Real Steel. Now 9Cr18Mov is my most-carried blade steel.

It seems to me that some steels are more variable than others. I don't know if it's because some steels are easier to work with or less sensitive to technique than others. For instance, 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to have as big of a swing between makers. However, the difference in 9Cr18Mov between Schrade and Civivi is night and day. Chinese D2 is another one that seems to vary.
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I've had some issues with Schrade/OT. Schrade just changed hands again a year or two ago and it seems like the brand is falling apart. You can only ride on an established brand name so long before it's time to either get it together or accept your fate and move on.

I'm not as hostile to imported knives as some are, but I don't want to pay a ton of money for a knife made where the labor is cheap. Civivi looks like a nice balance. I know you said the 9Cr18MoV is good, is the heat treatment good on their other steels? How is the build quality?
 
Correct... as Taylor Cutlery used to own the rights to the Smith & Wesson namesake for branding on knives, at the end of 2016 BTI (Battonfield Technologies Inc.), a subsidiary brand of Smith & Wesson Holding Corps. essentially bought out Taylor Cutlery in full, and all the assets, to the tune of $85 million.

Seems fitting that years after Taylor bought the S&W naming rights, that S&W would essentially buy out all of Taylor Cutlery. The unfortunate side is that it appears along with all the assets they will also continue to produce Schrade, Old Timer, Uncle Henry, and Imperial knives, (all assets formerly owned by Taylor), in China, and so the quality, at least for now, seems to remain unchanged as well.

As for if they will continue to make actual "Smith & Wesson" branded knives, and if they do whether they too will continue the Taylor tradition in China, or step it up to make higher quality American made knives, (which would be nice to see), to honor their parent company's namesake, I can't seem to find out one way or the other...
 
the cost saving going from vg10 to 9cr13mov is just too small (imho) to justify it

add to that so many great knives already being made with vg10 and it's a simple choice

case in point - the spydy dragonfly - only $66
SPC28ZFPGR2_1.jpg
 
MarkN86 said:
... Civivi looks like a nice balance. I know you said the 9Cr18MoV is good, is the heat treatment good on their other steels? How is the build quality?
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Civivi might be my favorite budget brand. They're actually the budget division of WE Knives. WE is one of the best Chinese knife companies out there. They also make knives for companies such as Ferrum Forge including the popular Massdrop Gent. I think their aim with Civivi was to bring a premium level of quality with less expensive materials. If so, they were right on target.

Action is good. Fit and finish tends to be excellent. I always take apart new knives for cleaning, inspection, and quality lubrication before I start using them. In budget knives, I often see dingy or grimy internals, lots of tool marks, etc. Not so with Civivi. I've had four of them apart now. They come nice and neat. As far as exploring their other steels, I'm still waiting to get my hands on an Elementum.
 
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