A $25 Sebenza? or is this just Vapor too?

U

UnknownVT

Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
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A $25 Sebenza?
or is this just Vapor too?

A quick admission - I am a huge Chris Reeve and Sebenza fan. I own both a small and large Sebenza (newer frames) - the small is ATS34, and the large BG42 - so they were bought at different times showing long term sustained interest/committment.

So what is this - $25 will buy a "Sebenza"?
This kind of talk is like mere Vapor..........

OK you already got it -
it's the Kershaw Ken Onion designed Vapor frame-lock.

I've had the (smaller) Vapor for some 2 years, and it is similar sized to the small Sebenza, although I obviously noted the similarities like the Frame-Lock, I didn't really make the connection -

Until I got the (larger) Vapor II - then it dawned on me how similar it was to the large Sebenza.

No I am (obviously) not claiming the Vapor II is the same as a large Sebenza -
but I am suggesting is that if you longed for a Sebenza - but cannot (yet) afford one -
then perhaps owning a Vapor II can give a good feel to what it's like to have a Sebenza.........

They are about the same size and feel about the same weight -
Vapor II - blade 3 1/2", Closed 4 1/2", weight 4.5oz
large Sebenza - blade 3 1/2", Closed 4 3/4", weight 4.5oz

We probably could debate with thousands of words over the merit of this - I'll just let some pictures be those thousands of words.......

Sizes - closed
Vapors_Sebenzas_cls_S.jpg


Sizes - Open
Vapors_Sebenzas_S.jpg


Reverse side:
Vapors_Sebenzas_bck_S.jpg


Frame-Locks
Vapors_SebenzaLg_lck_S.jpg


Back/Spine
Vapors_SebenzaLg_spn_S.jpg


Vapor II Tip - Just in case you think I'm waxing lyrical about the "perfection" of a Vapor II - there is a strange grind at the tip -
VaporII_Tip.jpg


Japan or China? -
I know my smaller Vapor was made in Japan - I was told by Kershaw that the Vapors are now made in China with Japanese steels - the Vapor I saw and handled at my local Wal*mart was made in China - and clearly marked so on the box.... but what's this on this brand new Vapor II?
Vapors_Jpn_S.jpg


Box - and if you squint you might just be able to see......
VaporII_Box_S.jpg


here's an enlargement of that detail -
VaporII_Box_dtl.jpg


For more detailed discussion on Frame-Locks with pics see this thread -
Frame-Locks (ala Sebenza)

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net/
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net/
 
Yup, they do look similar. Send all four and let me see if they handle similarly in the blind fold test - or better - just send a Sebenza. I'll email a check for the $25.

OK, that's out of the way. Interesting point - they do look the same in many respects - except for the hoky holes. But I've seen Sebenza's with similar here, so . . .

As for the country of origin, I put more repute in what was reported to you than the markings. Note the etched "Japan" on the potentially Chinese knife. That process is common on their stuff (OK, I handle cheap knives. Excuuuse me.)

Now to find a test report on them.
 
I've never seen Kershaw mark a knife Japan that wasn't actually made there(backed up by the many I've seen marked China). the fact that it also sais MADe in japan on box leads me to believe they are. Have seen companies put Japan on the blade if it's japanese steel, but don't see them then also mark on the box that it was actually made in Japan.
 
The CRK has one major benefit in my eyes, the handle design.
While not having handled a Sebenza, i have handled the Vapors.
Kershaw makes a great knife in my opinion, but the tapering of the handle leaves me feeling like i'm holding a pencil. The crook of my pinkie finger would rather have some handle material to grip, and Vapors do not have that. Still, they're a fine knife, and at the price difference, i'll own a Vapor long before a Sebenza.

When it came down to having both the Kershaw and a Gerber Paraframe in my hands, for the same size and price relatively, i bought the Gerber. Somehow it felt like the nicer knife, believe it or not.
Style, heft, and feel overall won me over. The Gerber was sharper also. (hair test)

UnknownVT, in keeping with the usual quality of your posts,
Thank you for making this nice comparison, it's very well done and has been informative. We need more overviews and side by side comparisons, helps us see what we're actually getting.

I will probably get a Vapor II and see if i grow accustomed to it's shape over time.

BTW, i really like frame locks alot :)
 
The last knife I had that seemed to taper was a Benchmade Panther. At first it bothered my esthetics, but in the hand it was a lot more comfortable. No heel to dig into my hand on hard cutting.

I need to get that back out. It's a low profile cutter these days.
 
I've had the same experience as Gonzo_Beyondo. The Vapor felt too small and slippery even in my small hands. It vaporized :D

As a former owner/user of both small and large Sebenza's, the "gray ****" excels over the Vapor in ergonomics.
 
Here's something that may be of interest. It may depend on which VaporII you get as to whether or not it is made in Japan or China.

First off, on the box, this I don't consider indicitave, as this box said Made in Japan too, but then had a sticker over it that said Made in China. As Vapor II isn't actually printed on the box, but just a sticker on the end, I believe that Kershaw uses the same generic boxes for more than one knife(though I dont' any other kershaws anymore so I can't compare this).

But I got the partially serrated Vapor II (Model # 1650ST) as I find some limited use for serrations, and more importantly, this was the model they had in stock(was actually planning on the Gerber Paraframe, but they didn't have tha tone either). So I got the Vapor II out of the box. On the froint ot fhe blade is the standard Kershaw logo (the one of full name Kershaw, not the KAI) near the spine. On the back of the blade it clearyl says Chine near the base, then up near the spine it had two lines. First one is KAI Logo 1650ST Vapor II. Second Line Designed by Ken Onion.

Anwyays, my first frame lock, ROCK SOLID LOCKUP, passes spine whack test with nary a problem, and a decent edge out of box(shaving sharp, not hair popping, and not as sharp as Speedsafes I've played with such as the Blackout). Decided it was worth 24.95, so put it in my pocket(which was good anyways as I forgot ot put the regular EDC, a CS Voyager, in my pocket when I left this morning for some reason).

So anyways, just felt like giving a little more info, and making mystery a little deeper. At least as to where the new Vapors are made.
 
I very much like the Vapor. Very solid lockup with a nice smooth handle. I wish the scales were thicker though :D Not that it's so necessary but for the bulk in hand.
Matt
 
Originally posted by Jazzman
I wish the scales were thicker though :D Not that it's so necessary but for the bulk in hand.
Click to expand...

I agree Matt/Jazzman.

I really like the (smaller) Vapor because it fits my hand well. The (larger) Vapor II has scaled just about everything proportionally except for the handle thickness. Although the Vapor II is slightly thicker overall, it's due to the thicker blade stock.

It does fit my hand reasonably well - but it is a bit slimmer than ideal - however the thinner/slimmer shape does have a benefit in that it rides better in the pocket - especially in the hip/back pocket (which I find is more suitable for the larger knives) and a knife tends to ride in the pocket a lot more than being used in the hand.

Of course actual thicker handles would make the knife noticably heavier - which probably is not a good thing - as I like the current weight (and balance).

Another aspect/detail that I liked about the Vapors is that the handle corners are nicely rounded/bevelled even to the lightening holes so the knives feel nice in the hand - unlike some of the other lower priced frame-locks I've handled.

In handling, operation, and functionality - they feel and act like knives that are considerably more expensive.
 
the vapor is indeed a very nice knife, i didn't believe how good it was until i handled one. And for such a cheap price!
 
How good is the AUS-6A blade on the vapor? I've had good luck with AUS-6 on my sog seal pup...Anyone know how long this knife keeps its edge?
 
The Vapor is a very nice bang for the buck knife. I bought one for a nephew. The handle does feel a bit thin.

However, I would rather have one Sebbie than a dozen Vapors. YMMV :)
 
Originally posted by Geode
The Vapor is a very nice bang for the buck knife. I bought one for a nephew. The handle does feel a bit thin.

However, I would rather have one Sebbie than a dozen Vapors. YMMV :)
Click to expand...

Which is why people buy one Sebenza rather than a dozen Vapors. I'd rather have one small Sebenza and one Ken Onion Rainbow Leek than a dozen Vapors--which is what I have, despite the similarity in price. ;)

By the by, the Kershaw box for my Rainbow Leek says "Made in USA. Printed in USA." They must make 'em all over the place.

All in all, I like Kershaw, but my main EDC is the small Sebenza. I might nab a Vapor later to lose/give away in an effort to convert someone to knife-knutism. Vapors might indeed be the "disposable" equivalent to the Sebenza, but like other disposables, the real thing's muuuch better.
 
Originally posted by Zal
the Kershaw box for my Rainbow Leek says "Made in USA. Printed in USA."
Click to expand...

That's because the Kershaw Leeks are actually made in the USA.

Look at the reverse side of the Leek blade -
it's etched "Made in USA" -
fbd37505.jpg


The Leek boxes also have promiently a wavey stars and stripes -
the box that the Vapor II came in does not.

The Vapor box at Wal*Mart also had a promient sticker that said made in China.
 
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