A 75th Anniversary 7OT on Ebay..How can that be??

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Jul 28, 2005
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G'Day #270063037507 is a 7OT Old Timer Cave Bear with "original" old brown Schrade box with "original" Schrade 75th Anniversary inscribed on blade. Sounds O.K.?
Robert Clemente describes first date of production as 1991,and it was not until 1996 that the factory began using Schrade+ Stainless Steel which this Ebay item sports.
Hmmm,that makes it max of 8 years old before closure. Is this 7OT rare being made in 1979 and some 17 years ahead of its time?? This is some proto!!...or is there a logical explanation? Would like to see what serial make No. the box sports.Hoo Roo
 
I've seen a few of these on the bay but have not researched their validity.
I dont think they are "fake". I just dont have the proof.
Robert's book does have errors and Im always happy to tell him. Hes been good so far and hasn't yelled too much. He actually tries to change any errors found. We have to tell him about the brass LB8's too.
TTYL
Larry
 
G'Day Larry, If you have seen others on Ebay isn't this a classic Schrade riddle which requires further investigation? This would put the 7OT as a rival in the same period to the LB7 which I cannot accept. Hoo Roo
 
I have the answer, but I was waiting for someone else to post it first.

RObert's book is a great resource for collectors. And it is constantly being revised, as Larry / lrv just stated. What most readers don't understand is that the book is pretty much as stated, a "catalog history". That is, written using a wealth of information garnered from Schrade's own catalogs. In the not-to-distant past, these were the only resources collector's had, and few had as complete a set as Mr. Clemente. The problem lies in the fact that the catalogs were not a complete listing of products, often contained errors or omissions in the text or illustrations, and sometimes showed products that never reached production, or deleted items before production ended. I still very much consider it to be a "must have" resource for any serious Schrade collector.

If no one else answers your question soon, I'll be glad to.

Michael
 
Larry was correct in saying that he had seen these before. They are Schrade production 7OT knives, and they do roughly date to the same time period as the introduction of the LB7's. I did a bit of digging, and this is a summation of what I found.

Imperial Knife Associated companies, under the direction of Albert and Henry Baer, expanded their manufacturing capabilities during a boom year of 1977. They bought the Richards Holdings of and Rogers Wolstenholm also of Sheffield, England. In Listowel, Ireland, they purchased what would become the Imperial Stag facility. In the United States, they built a lockback manufacturing facility at Ellenville, and began one also at the Imperial factory in Providence, Rhode Island. The LB7 Bear Paw was first manufactured in late 1977. 1979 was the first catalog listing, but the knife was in full production a year earlier and advertised in the July, 1978 American Rifleman Magazine.

The success of the LB7 prompted Schrade to add an Old Timer version, the 7OT Cave Bear to their lineup, though for whatever reasons, it was not added to their catalogs until well into the mid 1990's.

First produced in late 1978, the 7OT was made in short production runs of small quantities lasting until the final 26 units were shipped in 1982. A total of about 110,000 of these were shipped over that five year period, with an additional 12,000 pieces noted as “7OTND”, possibly being the ones now seen having a “Schrade 75th Anniversary” blade etch.

Apparently, after having been out of production for seven years, production resumed in 1990, and in 1995 the 7OT Cave Bear was at last added to the catalogs in the Lockback family of Schrade Old Timer knives. It was essentially an LB7, but with Sawcut Delrin covers and the OT signature shield replacing the “Winewood” fibron impregnated covers on the LB7 series. The tangstamps may be seen on the mark side with SCHRADE+ over 7OT U.S.A., or SCHRADE over U.S.A. 7OT (presumably on the first production run). The 7OT remained in the catalog in 2004, the company’s last year, when it’s MSRP was $56.95. The price when introduced in 1991 was $42.95.

Earliest knives will be found in the brown woodgrain boxes, then tan “Sharp Idea” boxes, then in 2002-03 in the blue striped boxes and clampacks, and finally in 2003-04, in the blue flag boxes and clampacks.

Michael
 
Well Michael, the only part of that answer you would have gotten out of me is the first sentence. While we're on the subject, let me take this opportunity to thank you for the reems of work you've contributed to this site. You're knowledge and resources on this subject are encyclopedic. I could spend a year trying to dig up what you produce in a week, and not come close to matching it. Your work certainly doesn't go unappreciated, if anything I'm a little embarrassed that I can't contribute more.
Again, thank you.
Eric
 
I've spent a lot of time, energy, and money chasing resources that this information comes from. In some instances, I have to buy five to twenty duplicates of a pattern to determine minor production changes. Also, the fellow members here have been very generous with their resources. Without their sharing, I would not have even half of the stuff available that I use to research from. Authors such as John and Charlotte Goins, Robert Clemente, Price, Levine, Russell, and a dozen others laid the groundwork that makes tying it together possible.

There is no magic to it, and I eschew the term "expert". As I have stated time and again, the number of "experts" on Schrade knives can be counted on one hand, and all of them worked in some capacity with Imperial Schrade. All I have is resources and the ability, with help, to ferret out details, and put them into a semi-readable form.

I am gratified if my work adds to collector's and user's enjoyment of Schrade knives (by now you all know what a broad spectrum of companies that encompasses!).

I must add that the questions you friends ask many times prompt me to do research that otherwise I might have neglected. Thank YOU one and all.

Michael
 
G'Day, How good are you mate? I can keep the questions coming if you can keep the answers flowing.
That makes that knife pretty good buying with original box and etched blade.
A thought: How would you like to have been a Schrade travelling salesman to the wholesale shops keeping up with his product lines when they were'nt even in his catalogue but were available just the same. Hoo Roo and Thanks.
 
As a caviat, note that I have not yet been able to positively confirm that the etch is OEM. It may well be, but without one to closely examine, and in the absence of verifyable papers containing specific notations, it is still unsubstantiated. I'll have to work on that aspect. All I've done is to confirm the fact that the knives themselves were produced earlier than thought, and in a timeframe where the etch could have been used. The "ND" suffix, without documentation, is not definitive proof of the etch. I shall endevour to persevere.

If someone would like to buy me that 7OT to examine, it would be a good thing. And you are correct, this is a blatent, undisguised Schrade grovel! :D

Michael
 
G'Day Codger....Its winging its way to Australia to join its brothers and sisters mate! I shall examine and advise. Thanks for all posters input. Hoo Roo from Downunder.
 
Ive forwarded the recent findings on the 7OT, LB5 and LB8 to Robert for updating of his book whom has already done so for his next release.
Lets keep digging. :D
ttyl
Larry
 
G'Day, My 75th Anniversary 7OT hasn't arrived as yet,however Ebay #260063560607 is a Mint 7OT from the Irving Trachtenberg Collection dated 1979 with some excellent photos if forum members care to check out.The US$42.65 I paid may have been reasonable as they describe it as rare. Interesting to see Codger it has the 4 pins similar to the LB7 lockback of the same period and unlike the modern 3 pins. You rightly alerted me to this for which I'm grateful mate. Hoo Roo from Oz.
 
Post Script to above post, the 7OT from Irv Trachts' collection does not sport Schrade + Steel and is designated 7-OT on Tang. The seller of my 7OT states mine has Schrade+.I find it hard to believe a variation would exist within a relatively small mintage. Did LB7's sport Schrade+ in 1979?
What say you Codger I might still have a gay pretender on its way? Hoo Roo
 
Many, many people think that just because a knife is a Schrade, the steel is Schrade+. They don't understand that it was a trademarked name for Schrade's stainless steel and it's treatment. The rule is...there are no rules. If it says Schrade+, it is stainless. It could also be stainless if it just says Schrade. Clemente states that they were stainless, but his info didn't include the earliest production. The 1979 introductory ad (which you need to post now) shows how the tangstamp appeared then, as does Irv Tractenburg's knife. The '79, '80 and '81 catalogs don't state one way or the other. You'll have to tell us when you receive your knife if it is carbon or stainless. My opinion at this point is, based on the pictures I've seen of the two knives and the contemporary factory photos, yours is an original 1979-81 vintage with the 1979 etch, regardless of the blade steel used.

Now. Everyone dig out your NIB 7OT's, and your display knives, and do the yellow mustard test. Larry303 will buy you a new one if it is carbon and you ruin it helping him out. :eek:

Gotta love those deep pocket aussies!

Codger Michael :)
 
Robert Clemente's book is self published, so Books-a-million and Barnes and Noble are out of luck. He will send you the latest printed revision, the loose leaf version punched for a small binder (keep mine here by the computer for quick reference), or you can request an e-copy, the latest updates appear in it before printing. clemente@charter.net

Michael
 
....plus I got a CD with photos of all the featured knives. Excellent value/reference. Hoo Roo
 
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