A bit of advice to NEWBIES.

S

shane justice

Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
1,606
For all you guys who are well established...and know your collective feces..

You ain't gotta read this post.

This post is for all the newbies who know what a knife looks like ...but got no idea how to go about anything else...

This is not meant to be insulting...it is just helpful advice that will keep this site strong and continuing to grow...without repeating the same dumb answers over and over again...

(MODERATORS: Possibly a newbie sticky...or a list of nomenclature and terms defined would be a great help.)

Anyway for all those folks who come in to this part of the forum and ask stuff like..."How do I make a knife?" or "What steel do I use for a knife?" or any one the million other questions that plague a new guy...

I have 6 letters for you that will open a new world...

S-E-A-R-C-H...put them all together and you will find that the real gold is the archives chock o' block full of information.

I used to read 3 or 4 hours a night in here...trying to learn the bits and bobs of knifemaking...

There a lot of master craftsmen here...who have laid it all down for novice knifemakers to absorb. USE IT!

These guys are also hardworking businessmen. Time on the computer is time away from the shop. They are more than willing to spend time hand holding you through the simple stuff...but please...DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR USUALLY GOOD NATURE...by filling up this part of the forum with half thought out questions, half baked theories, or half-cocked attitudes!

If you are on this site...you obviously have a PC...check out some of the maker's websites. There are tutorials EVERYWHERE! NO subject is left untouched....and there are numerous schools popping up in backyards around the country...

If, on the other hand...you are just being lazy hoping somebody will do the work for you...tell you everything you want to know...and have you making unbreakable knives ready to whisp through concrete and engine blocks...

Well, then you are on a whole 'nuther trip...and maybe you won't be happy around here...

Good luck newbies.

I wish you well.

Shane

P.S. By now you are wondering, "Who the hell is this dip wad spouting off at me?" Well, I am last year's newbie...I was the guy who asked all the half thought out, half-baked, half-cocked questions last year...only back then they told me..." That was a dumb arse question!" and then ignored me.

I would save you that by trying to help...the new guys...and the old hands at the same time.
 
Before I turned off the PC...I read this post to Wendy...

She said it was pretty hard...I posted it anyway...

Just trying to encourage folks to work at it a bit...

That little bit of prep work...makes the doing a lot easier...

SO for all those that were pissed by this thread....

Oh well...once again...my heart was there...even if my words were misplaced.

SHane
 
Im with you!

Im sure i've been guilty of non-search posting, but its usually when i can't readily find something and think it would be useful. Its tough to see the "How do i get started?" threads when there is so much already here. I used to read 2-3 hours a night of old posts, tutorials, etc. Just researching setup details for my KMG was a matter of going through years of knowledge that is spewed here!

I just wish people would invest in a 7$/mo domain and host their pictures, most threads over a month old hosted on free junkie photo hosting sites are nearly worthless without their pics.

I host on Lunarpages. I think i pay 7$ per month (dont say you cant afford it) and get:

Free domain name for life
3000Mb Storage
40 Gig bandwith/month
Free .sql databases
Plus you can addon domains, host two sites under one plan, and they have an automated script library for ecommerce, forums, photo galleries, etc.....

Its nice to be able to throw a whole directory of high res pics on there and not worry about ever having to remove them.
 
ok im one of the asking guys however im not insulted, sometimes things like this need to be said. someone gave me the advice of getting some books so today i went to the library and picked up 6 of them, probably a good thing.
searching for me is a bit complicated since i dont know what all machines and techinques are called but ill try to do my best. anyway this is a nice forum and i bet ill learn alot from the people here. take care
 
A problem though Shane , often the search feature just doesnt work , I have had it not work for me for over a week of trying and either gave up or moved on to something else.
Otherwise , I can see what your saying.
 
I have posted this a few times about the search feature that I read somewhere (sorry, I forgot who posted it) that seems to make a huge difference. I use to never be able to get the search to work until this was suggested...

*Go to advanced search
*Under 'search by keyword' on the pull down menu select 'search titles only'
*If you think what you are searching for is only going to be in shop talk then only search in shop talk under 'search in forum(s)' to narrow the content that has to be searched
Then search away...

I have had much better luck this way. Just a heads up for all those who have problems with it like I use to (man I would get frustrated!)

Ryan

:D:D
 
I thought I read that the search function only works for paying members but in this paying members experience the search feature here on this forum is the best way to find "page not found" 99.9% of the time. I've used the tricks mentioned in other posts when trying to do a search and in general my only real complaint about the BF is that the search function here, simply put, sucks. Of course it isn't much better elsewhere. You get results but they are never anywhere near what you typed in. Sometimes I wonder how in the world some of the posts that come up are even selected by the search engines as they have little if anything to do with my parameters.

As a result of my own experiences with search engines being worthless to begin with, I never hold it against a newbie for asking a question even if it is one I've answered before. So what? I've got no problem remaking a post or the info contained within and have never understood the guys that are so quick to snap at people who come in here or anywhere else on the forums and innocently ask a legit question.

It seems to me if someone is willing to take the time to make a post to chew on someone for not using the search function or for asking a same ole same ole question that they could use the same energy to give the guy an answer at the same time rather than just bite the guys head off and not give any other info. (not that I'm saying that has happened here)

Or heres an idea: maybe the guys that seem to like telling others to use the search function could just ignore the question and move on if it bothers them that much since it was so troubling to have to answer it the last time.
 
I agree with you, Shane. I've gotten off to a comfortable start in the last year by using the search functions on this site and a couple others. Not ONCE have I found myself at a loss when searching (my incredibly low post count testifies); I've found answers every time. Sometimes I had to mix the words around a little, or come at it from a different direction, but it's all there.

I would add one thing, though.

I agree that newbie questions may tend to muck up your board, and it's no fun having to ignore people asking for help. But this forum is titled: "Bladesmith Q&A". Now, even if (and I agree it should be) a sticky is posted at the top of the board, there are going to be folks who won't notice it, or don't know what the hell a sticky is. I didn't. Some guys that want to learn are from a pre-pc generation, and might have a tough time finding their way. So questions with titles like, "what steel to use for a knife?" are going to sneak through.

And certainly the big guys here have paid their dues on this level and answered such questions hundreds of times; their time is much better spent typing answers to more specific and advanced questions that challange their expertise and expand the knowledge base. Therefore, I submit that it's incumbent upon the freshman Webelos, such as you claim to be (though the stuff I've seen of yours kicks a whole lot more ass that that!), to field these questions.

If I'm not mistaken, that's the golden rule of the knifemaking community; a whole lot's been given to you, and you, therfore, give it back.

Information is necessary to the guy starting to dream steel, but so is a little thoughtful encouragement, and, yes, sometimes a kick in the ass. A little "way to go" from guys like Gray, Williams, ect., does go a long way; but the ones with most recent experience with what it is to be a noob are really the experts in this field, because they know exactly what it took to get their first ten knives made. It's probably hard for a fella with three Baders, a Bridgeport and a couple of Burgmasters to remember what it was like to play MacGyver with an old rusty spring. That's where the post-newbie is most apt, and that's where he should step up and offer a hand. And if he advises wrong, then a healthy debate ensues, and that's good for everyone who wants to learn.

A kick in the mouth, or a crowd of cold shoulders, as soon as a fella pokes his head in the door, isn't what I'm used to seeing on this board or any other knifemaking Q&A site. It isn't helping anyone but those who don't want to be bothered; and those who don't want to be bothered shouldn't hang on a Q&A forum.

You guys don't know me from Adam, because I haven't posted here hardly at all. But I've learned a hell of a lot from you all, and appreciate it more than I can say. If these thoughts are removed from the philosophy of this forum, and I've got the wrong idea entirely, let me know and I'll stick to searching. Otherwise, I'll try to start putting my thoughts out there for the really new guys when I see them asking.

-Bukiewicz out
 
I think one thing everyone should remember is that a thread isn't done , till everyone gets tired of posting in it. Nobody hear can lock a thread but the owner and moderators.

Just because I or someone else dont answer a post; or tell someone to read a book , doesnt mean the thread is dead.

Dont take things so seriously, these are knives we're talking about here Guys.



Oh , The search function works fine , just do the advanced search and limit it to shoptalk. You'll get much better results.
 
Many people who aspire to making knives are only in the dreaming stage when they first log on here. Maybe looking to rub digital elbows with some big name maker. Learn by associating with someone who has spent years honing his skills. Many newbies only have a dream, they might not no what questions to ask or even who to ask. There are so many things to learn, where does a newbie start. What is question No.1? When I see someone has posted
questions, No.1,2or 3 I try to remember what I felt like asking the very same question, if I recall the feeling was ; overwhelmed and a bit confused.It only takes a moment of my time to encourage or inlighten someone who is searching.Maybe what I post in reply will change their dream to reality. Fred
 
This should probably be posted in Around the Grinder, but it pertains to what Shane is saying.

Since I started the CJ3B Willys restoration, I joined a very good Jeep forum. I forgot what it felt like to be a newbie. What a great touch of reality..

I read everything, in every forum, on every subject. Then I started a search for key items. The information was awesome. On a few subjects that came up empty, I posted pictures and questions and prefaced each post with the fact that I had searched and couldn't find any information. Lots of times I didn't have a clue what I was really looking for, but most often I'd find it by looking at pictures and drawings. It did take time.

Those guys have been very responsive and cordial.

I think this is along the lines of what Shane is saying.

I know that I've slacked up in answering questions, but the 2nd and 3rd generation of members are doing a great job answering them. One of these days you guys just joining up (4th generation) will be the answer man.
 
To me one of the reasons people come to a forum is to talk to people. Live people in a chat type situation where they get live help. The search engine to many is equated with the telephone answer machines that we have to live with everyday. You all know the routine: " If you want to know about such, please press 1. If you want to talk about ? please press 2." So, who can blame someone for not wanting to deal with a machine? I certainly can't.

Steve
 
I will have to say that Shane has opined what many of us here have come to realize as part of the game. Bladeforums does not have a newbie forum, and in my mind that is a good thing. Why? Because newbie forums tend to be the blind leading the blind if experienced makers never post there.

So that is why I feel that any question from anyone posted here in Shoptalk is a good thing. Even those age-old shop-worn questions about grinders, and how to make a knife, etc, often lead to insightful rhetoric from experienced makers. I don't know about anyone else, but I value the opinions of each and every one of you. The day I stop learning is the day I meet my maker.

Knifemakers share a small community... a fraternity. We depend on each other, for at least some cameraderie if not helpful criticism and friendship. We are a small bunch on the scale of things concerning hobbies and careers. Rarely will you meet a knifemaker who is not at least congenial and hospitable. The ones that aren't rarely enjoy any measure of longevity in this craft.
 
shane justice said:
P.S. By now you are wondering, "Who the hell is this dip wad spouting off at me?" Well, I am last year's newbie...I was the guy who asked all the half thought out, half-baked, half-cocked questions last year...only back then they told me..." That was a dumb arse question!" and then ignored me.

I would save you that by trying to help...the new guys...and the old hands at the same time.
Click to expand...
your wife is a wise woman and it's most often wise to heed to her warnings :D time will prove that :D

Shane I agree to the point of your own words, you did the same thing.. :D

Kit says it the way I would have, if he didn't beat me to it.. :)
I've lacked off a lot giving answers from the limited knowledge I have.
it's the newbies that exercise what they'll learned here they end up the next generation of the answer man or Woman :)
when guys first poke their head in here they just don't know what, why and or who, and they get the bug and just want it all , all at once,, when the bug has bitten..
I do agree to half baked answers though, they should be do-able and not said or implied to be the only answer, but known as just an opinion of that makers way.. we know there are many many ways to do simple things to get to the same point the new guys need to know that too, and there may be a lot better ways to do something..... just my 2 cents added
 
Shane,
I am one of the newbies, just joined the forum on Friday. Actually, I found the forum while roaminig aimlessly around in a search engine and getting no clear info in a hurry. I finally saw a hit that said "bladeforums" and clicked on it and this here world opened up. What a revelation, like the sight of land to a man on a sinking ship in a storm.
In my short time here I have found so much information, there is no stupid question to someone who does not have the answer yet.
I note that many of the guys on this post that have replied to you are the same ones that answered some of my questions already and also welcomed me to the "brotherhood" when I posted my Hello.
I am maybe one of those who prompted you to write this because I can come across a bit cocky at times, not intended, it is just how I come across.

I am a newbie to the site but I have made 8 knives already so I am not completely new in the game.
I have the advantage of working in a tool shop so I already have certain basic skills which help immensely, plus I have a lot of equipment at my disposal.
I SO admire the guys who do not have any of this and just grunt it out with no tools except guts and determination and a whole lot of sweat and heart. This is where the art comes into artisan!! They will become the new knife making legends!
It must be terrifying to get started if do not at least have a lifeline like this site. Just this week-end I had the privelage of conversing with Ed Fowler about steel and he told me about Dan Gray......I even got gently reprimanded by you for hi-jacking a thread with Ed. This is great, speaking knifemakers of this calibre, along with so many others. It really is such an inspiration!

In a way I can understand where you are coming from but please do not shun the newbies, especially the guys with no equipment but a lot of heart.

Oh, Dan Gray is right about your wife :D :D

Take care Sir.
Mike
 
I rambled on too much, here is a link for other newbies that I found very helpful when I started out. By the late,great Bob Engnath of "Blades N Stuff".
http://www.engnath.com/
Plenty of useful stuff in there.
I particularly like the way he started off
"There are also a heck of a lot of ways to arrive at a good knife, all of them correct"

Opinions are opinions, nothing is cast in stone.

Sincerely

Mike
 
Guys,
All the opinions are good...all knowledge is good.

If this craft is a man's dream...then he will be willing to dig to get it.

Still, in all, and I would bet some of you good men would agree...that the best learning you ever did was by doing. In my mind that is where learning takes place. So when you fail...when you hear that little *plink* sound...deep in the quench trough...or feel the blade give during the flex...or when it won't cut doodly squat...and your frustration has caused you to punch a hole in the shop wall...because the pharquing grind line has that dang wobble in it AGAIN!....

Then you can begin to form a question...that the old hands can smile at and say..."Oh sure...seen that a hundred times...try this or that...lemme know how it goes..." There's the sharing part that seems right to me...

The best instruction goes out the window until you have a personal investment in it...and you have encountered it in RT.

I am done preaching now.

Gray old friend, you are right... I was that guy, prolly still am.

about Wendy...she is so much wiser than me...that it hurts. If she's so dang smart...then why does she keep pushing me to get back in the shop ? Why won't she just let me sell my tools and be done with it?

Hope the new guys will take the advice offered here...and run with it...
if you can learn even a tenth of what is here...you can make a good knife.

In the meantime...in case you haven't noticed...the real gold is in the people.

Shane
 
Hey Miden,
I posted the same time you did...

as far as having tools to start out...I can tell some of the stupidest stories about having nothing...and still making a knife...everybody here got the same stories...

We all start with nothing.......and we all got a brain and two hands...and desire.

Oh...and don't worry about being cocky...but let's call it confidence..there's a difference.

Bob Engnath was a hell of a guy...and passed more on to us than most of us know. He is not quoted as a source for info as much as he deserves.

Anyway..you keep at it...

Shane
 
good info here for sure :D
we all had this talk some time ago in these forums on a thread ..

There is an editor that most of us have at least read his text in some of the Knife magazines, he collected knives also and he really wanted to make knives a long time ago, he was so pumped about it, he built a shop , it was of cement blocks strong and fire proof, he got grinders, buffers, and all the stuff he needed,.. he got his steel and then went to grinding (for the very first time)....
before long he found that he could not grind out a knife let along a straight line,, no matter how hard he tried it was not happening, he came to the conclusion very fast that it was not going to happen for him no mater what......the moral of the story is ....
if you are a knife maker at heart and have the wiring for it you will be a knife maker,, if not, then you have to settle for collecting or what have you. :)

newbies are those that don't know yet and if he has to ask the most basis questions at first then so be it, but as he goes on he will find out if he is a maker or not..
it's been said here in these forums there are no secrets :confused: well it's partly true to the point of style and the little ways that just can't be transferred to the other guy we all want to learn by others mistakes to save time and in turn like Shane says, it just won't sink in all the way until you make that BOOBOO yourself but knowing something about what to expect can help.. emencely..

the very fist Stihl school I went to. was, I think, a week long,, they told us they were going to cram about 3 weeks worth of info in our heads :eek: ((where they would put that information in my head was going to be a challenge for them for sure, if they could even get it through my thick scull))

the point was and is we may not recall everything out of the school at will, but it would be in the back of our minds to pull from if in a situation where its needed, kind of like,, hey this sounds familiar, truly it makes things easier
to have learned this way..in a short time..but we need to work at it too.
this all pans out by itself..

:D with that wife remark ,,
it's better to be thought wrong and be right than in the dog house for the whole night :D

that has taken me about 30 years married to the same woman to finger out,, talk about a thick head yea :D you can quote me on that one :D
 
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