a blending of traditional and "techy" clothing

M

mtwarden

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Sep 27, 2009
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I was particularly challenged dressing today- air temp 10, windy (occasionally gusting to 30 mph), snowing w/ ~ 10" of existing snow already on the ground

It was going to be an exerting endeavor (traveling over rough terrain) so I knew I had to mitigate sweating as much as possible

I started w/ light merino layers top and bottom, thick merino socks
boots were high topped leather Schnees (16") w/ a wool/thinsulate blend liner
pants were a tight weave wool whipcord
a wore a light fleece pullover (R1)
a fleece beanie on top
light wool glove liners, inside heavy wool mitts
a light goretex shell w/ hood

packed clothing- medium weight down jacket and a R1 balaclava

needless to say it was cold! :D as I started up the first grade (wind to my back) I started warming up, the more I climbed the warmer I got- I opened up the pit zips and pulled down the zipper of the shell to my belly, hood came off- I also tried to slow down a little if I started heating too much

when I eventually hit the top the wind was atrocious, coat got zipped up- including the pit zips, hood back up

when I had to head back into the wind it wasn't too fun, snow flakes (driving snow flakes) would occasionally hit me in the eye and darn near make me cry like a girl :eek:

as headed down I was a little more protected from the wind and starting opening things up again

all in all I was pretty pleased w/ my clothing- the gore did hold some sweat in, a shell that was windproof but breathed better and still offered some moisture protection (in these conditions waterproof isn't necessary- water resistant would suffice) would be better, I have a windshirt that meets those criteria, but it's too light/fragile were I was headed today

I've found the fleece beanie does a lot better job breathing/staying dry than equivalent wool ones

a hood was absolutely necessary in these conditions

the glove/mitt setup worked good- a windproof overmitt might have worked even better????

the tall Schnees were made for walking in deep snow, pants tucked in- no need for gaiters, feet stayed warm, but the liners were a little damp when I was done

whipcord pants were made for these conditions, windpants layered over a light fleece would work well too, but again the going was rough and the outer pants might have taken a beating

all in all, not bad- I think some light goggles might make into the pack next time :)
 
Great post, Mike. Yea I agree with ya, some goggles can really help keep you from crying like a girl lol. I hate driving snow flakes. YUCK lol

What goretex were you using. Name brand I mean?

Bryan
 
I often mix fleece and wool as part of my layering system. I think both work great, with the wool providing a bit more wind resistance and the fleece excelling at having zero moisture retention.

If you go all high tech, you pretty much have to mix gortex or polyester windproofing with fleece to make it windproof (I think windblocker is just a big BS thing cause it sure as heck don't block wind). Wool, provides a better breathability factor with some loss of windproofness. Again, I think the two layer together rather nicely.

I often wear merino wool long underwear, over top of that is a 200 wt. fleece bib. Pants (cotton or other wind proof material); and usually a wool sweater or blanket shirt on my upper. I have a mid-weight fleece spare for underlayering on my top if I get cold.

Of course, if its going to be 3 solid days of rain, the gortex replaces the wool outer.
 
I picked up a Patagonia Wool + Polyester fleece hybrid that is FANTASTIC. I applaud the use of new and old!
 
panchos when it's really wet are king. can double as a ground cloth or as a temporary wind blocker to get the fire going on a windy hide.worsted wool is almost windproof & probably as tuff & long lasting as any other outer garment. fleece unders follow & if you can afford it 1st layer should be merino wool.although most ponchos are a little weighty the combination of versatility & good venting on arduous & wet movements are hard to beat.
dennis
 
I like these shirts for the conditions you describe. I've got a few of their bits but it is the shirts both lined and unlined I use the most. They're very windproof and although not quite as hard as the Pertex 6 of the jackets they shed damp and dry very quickly, especially after a Nikwaxing. Dirty great vents up each side and a big dump pocket on the front are features I really love. And they work great with a hip belt. I'll often have the hood off one of their jackets and stick it on one of these. I love them. They're so light, thin, flexible and slippery building up layers of them is a joy. I use them under Gore-Tex, have used them under combat jackets, and use them as stand alone garments. They're hugely popular here in many professional spheres from mountain rescue, military, cavers, boaters...anything where windproofing, low moisture absorbency, high wicking, and quick drying is prized. Softshells abound but I keep coming back to these. They've got a cult like status here for use at the high energy stuff in the wind and damp like the Loafer has for Builder's Best.

I rather fancy making a set of overmitts from Insultex.
 
I spent about 14 years as a professional international mountain guide in some of the worst places on Earth. I've been in those conditions hundreds of times and have worked out a system that excells for me, but may not work for you.

I'm a big softshell fan and have been using them for the last 12 years when they first started becoming available in the US through Cloudveil. I rarely use hardshells because rain is not usually a problem on the big mountains, and if there's rain you need to be bailing out quickly before the avalanches and rock falls start in. When I do use a hardshell I only use eVent because it's much more breathable than Gore-Tex and I sweat like a pig when it's freezing out.

What I use in bad conditions like that: lightweight Merino base layer, heavy softshell pants (Mammut Champs are awesome) and a softshell jacket (Mammut Ice Age is my current favorite). Both of these are made from Schoeller Extreme. I wear heavy mountaineering boots with heavy merino wool socks (go with Smartwools, Darn Tough Socks or Tekos). Again because I sweat heavily I prefer to wear softshell gaiters, although I also like lightweight Gore-Tex gaiters for sloppy conditions.

My midlayer consists of a synthetic filled jacket or vest, or a Windstopper Vest. I often will also wear a light stretchy fleece or a windshirt (Marmot invented it but I like Moonstone's and MontBells, too). The windshirt can also do double duty as an outer layer in milder conditions, which is my virtually every mountain guide in the world has them in their arsenal.

I wear heavy 3 layer glove systems for really cold conditions (Good ones are from Outdoor Research, Black Diamond [their ICE gloves are my favorite and I own 3 pairs of them], Patagonia, Mammut, MontBell, Extremities). In milder conditions and when I need more dexerity I wear softshell gloves or Windstopper gloves (I only like Windstopper for gloves and masks and maybe vests because they breathe too poorly for anything else).

For my head I make a convertible balaclava from a neck gaiter (stretch fleece, Windstopper fleece or merino woold, depending on what you like), Outdoor Research or neoprene face mask, ear band and a wool or fleece hat. This allows me to change my headgear with the conditions as you lose so much heat through your head (which also works nicely for cooling off rapidly, too).

Hope this helps.
 
baldtaco-II said:
I like these shirts for the conditions you describe.
Click to expand...

I realize the jacket has pit vents, but I always prefer a full zip front so I can throw it wide open as I begin to overheat.

Most of the time, I am down to my base layer pretty quickly during any vigorous exercise.
 
reconranger said:
I realize the jacket has pit vents, but I always prefer a full zip front so I can throw it wide open as I begin to overheat.

Most of the time, I am down to my base layer pretty quickly during any vigorous exercise.
Click to expand...

I find both have advantages. The jackets I have from them have a full length double zip up the front. The shirts ventilate very well though. With the two way zips the sides can be completely dropped out like a tabard as the zips go from pit to bottom hem.
 
So how do these softshells- that seem to be primarily designed for high alpine pursuits translate into lowland adventures?

What I have is technically soft shell; but not technical softshell.

I have an H2no shell; but haven't had conditions to try it out fully. It gets brought along like so much other just in case of emergency kit.

I have never cared for ponchos, except for my wool one from Peru-very multi purpose; from pillow, or blanket, outer wear to camo pack cover/silencer. If you use one for groundsheet it could get holes, too small for shelter, and no fun when the wind is howling.

This year I felt like trying r1 pants but havent worn them yet. I have been wearing merino but they are too torn up for another season. R1 should carry through a lot of variable temps i hope ????

I like the way these folks do things http://www.ramblersway.com/our-story/values-beliefs
 
^ I've got a pair of the R1 pants and they are great for high aerobic activities snowshoeing, x-country skiing, etc- you will need a wind layer for them as they breathe so well you'll chill w/ much wind

a soft shell (w/ hood) might be exactly what I'm looking for- I've heard good things about Schoeller

not seeing the Iceage jacket, might be discontinued??
 
I tried on r1 shirt in the store, but decided against it. They didnt have pants so I hope i got the right size- to layer under whips. if thats not enough i have a pair marmot scree pants. between the 3 i hope to have all bases covered.

my soft shell is devold thermo jacket. There's just no budget left for another expensive jacket-that'll have to work or die. Rather than mid weight fleece Ive been wearing thrift store cashmere which i think is way warmer. for sitting around i have down sweater.

I think what I need is just a simple, quiet, breathable windbreaker. Quiet is the hard to find part

what really needs doing is to invent a battery charger to take advantage of all the static electrics generated mixing wool and synthetic garments
 
How does Schoeller hold up to spark holes and spark tunneling? Its my number one grief for Gortex/nylon and fleece as outer wear. I'm always getting spark holes tunneling through my stuff, unless I have wool on as an outer. Heck, I even burned a hole in my wool sweater. It smells like burning human hair. I kept pawing at my head thinking I was going to feel some crispy follicles (thats one way to put colour back on top of my head). Turns out it was my sweater. An ember sort of smoldered there and went out. I quick sew job and the sweater is back to being as it is. If I had a gortex jacket on, I'd probably be doing the drop, drag and roll routine.
 
Looks like the Ice Age Jacket has been discontinued. It used to be a part of their Guide line of clothing. It's basically a hoodless jacket with napoleon pockets. Mammut is top notch gear and the only company that I have found that equals their quality is Arc'Teryx.

If I were to buy one today, I would probably go with the Dragon Jacket from Mountain Hardwear. Nobody made hooded softshells when I was guiding and I really wanted one for ice climbing as I always seem to get snow and water down the back of my neck.

Schoeller and other softshells are synthetics so they melt when they get sparks on them, but I haven't had any burst into flames. I did have the sleeve of my North Face Nuptse jacket burst into flames when I got it to close to the stove I had rigged up to hang inside my tent. Talk about a moment of panic! In my mind I pictured everything I needed to survive in the middle of nowhere in an alpine environment. I would have been dead. Still have the jacket and it wears a nice black patch on the left sleeve. If someone asks I lie and tell them it's there to protect the jacket from my altimeter watch, which I wear on the outside of my layers. Your mountain becoming the human torch and costing all of us our lives doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
 
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the Dragon looks like a nice jacket, Mammut has a jacket called the Ultimate Hoody that looks pretty good- I get a hefty professional discount on Mammut (that I've yet to use); reviews look pretty positive too
 
I used to have the Ultimate Jacket from Mammut but back then it was made from Windstopper fleece. Now it's made from Windstopper Softshell, which is a much much better material for this jacket.

I don't know if it still does, but the best thing about the Ultimate was that it had side zippers than ran from the waist up to the armpit and came completely open. Not only did it vent better than any other jacket, it also allowed easy access to a side arm, which was great when I was deployed.
 
I might have found the piece I was looking for :) it's a Patagonia windshirt, but unlike the Houdini (which is a great 3 season piece)- it uses a heavier nylon (weighs about double); it's part of the military level system (Level 4)- it's a little longer in the torso and the heavier fabric should keep it from getting shredded, like the Houdini it has a DWR finish
 
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