A box collector or knife collector?

Codger_64

Codger_64

Moderator
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
62,324
I have been keeping running checks on several Schrade knivfe patterns on Ebay for almost two months, cataloging details of features, condition, accessories, and final selling price. Yeah, kinda knutzie, but it is an interesting research project. One might think that the inclusion of an original box would not appreciably alter the selling price, but it does. Myself, I would rather have a mint knife with a mint sheath for $60 than have the box thrown in for another $25. An exception might be where there is a special edition and a display box was a part of the original package. That I can understand. But not on a stock knife.

In my research, I have paid close attention to every minute detail in the description and pictures. When something is vague, or not shown, I am not shy in asking the seller to show and tell. A lot of interesting variations come to light this way, and a lot of false information is discovered.

One knife purported by the seller to have come from the Schrade Offices is a case in point. The price on this knife, because of seller hype over the provenance, the original looking box, the like new sheath, is drawing above average bids. Close examination shows that the sheath is one of the undyed replacements. The woodgrain box might have been original, but comparing the Ellenville label on it with the Walden tangstamp makes it suspect. I expect this mint knife to go over 120% of the average selling price for an equivilant mint knife with original mint sheath, and no box.

Maybe I should be in the box business. Replacement classic boxes.

Codger

(Relevence of the Ellenville address box label? It also says "Woodsman 165OT". The "Woodsman" name did not appear until 1974, after the move from Walden)
 
Very interesting, Mike. I think the Schrade craze has peaked, but there are still sellers kidding buyers and buyer kidding themselves.
 
Statisticians describe certain trends as bell curves. I think that may be appropriate here. As more big sellers find less and less buyers willing to shell out for a discontinued but otherwise ho-hum Schrade, they will unload, cut their losses and move on to the next, more profitable fad. It will be a short while yet before the speculation buyers begin unloading their accumulations during the decline (months, not years), causing a second "echo" glut of Schrades as they hit the market. This should be a buyer's market, much like the end af last year.

Individual collectors not prone to unloading their example aquisitions so easily, and particularly on a down trend, will continue to buy, but only the real deals. Like the last designs of liner locks, for a dime or quarter on the dollar. Or cherry picking the cigar boxes and special editions that speculators bought up and hoarded in anticipation of a meteoric rise in demand and price.

The user buyers will continue to buy, but most of them will only want a few patterns. A large portion of them were satisfied during the last big rise. Some more will come along as fall hunting seasons approaches, but not as many. A number of them either buy their knives locally, or have little brand loyalty and will move without hesitation to the next hot selling brand, Buck, Camillus, or.....

I followed the silver bullion market last century and played the same game the Hunt Brothers played, but I opposed the market trends, buying on the rise, holding near the top, selling half at the peak, continuing to rebuy incrementally as the price dropped (averaging down earlier buys), then bought like crazy as prices plummeted and people were panicing. I sold it all back to them at the next peak and retired from silver. The brothers lost their ashes. The Schrade speculation market is not much different.

LT was right, as usual. The product in warehouse and in the pipeline, and everywhere else hitting the market at once proves that these knives are not as rare as hype would indicate with only a very few exceptions. The older, truely rare knives have gone begging in the meantime.

Didn't Kenney Rogers write a song about this LT? Something about holding, folding, walking, and running?

Codger :footinmou
 
Ah yes, the Hunt brothers......

In another time in my life, I spent some time around the horses. The Hunt's (Colors: black and white checked, with SILVER trim, I believe) were big time owners and breeders. Watching their empire collapse due to greed and avarice (JMO) was an economic history lesson. They left the horses in 1988 (wonder why???), but returned about 10 years later. I guess some folks just aren't happy with alot....just got to have it all.

Whatever.

Forum content, I think you folks are right about the market for Schrades softening. Especially with all the "ersatz" (good word from another thread Codger) sCHRADES flooding the market.

Bill
 
Codger_64 said:
One knife purported by the seller to have come from the Schrade Offices is a case in point. The price on this knife, because of seller hype over the provenance, the original looking box, the like new sheath, is drawing above average bids. Close examination shows that the sheath is one of the undyed replacements. The woodgrain box might have been original, but comparing the Ellenville label on it with the Walden tangstamp makes it suspect. I expect this mint knife to go over 120% of the average selling price for an equivilant mint knife with original mint sheath, and no box.
(Relevence of the Ellenville address box label? It also says "Woodsman 165OT". The "Woodsman" name did not appear until 1974, after the move from Walden)
Click to expand...

Well, the fat lady has sung on this knife, sheath, box mismatch. $139.01 .
Here is the NIB selling average for this same knife over the past two months with the correct sheath and box, and no "found in Wally's drawers" story. Ready? $95.00 I believe that is a 41% increase just for the story. Mint condition, correct sheath and no box is...$62.00. And for $139.01, that is a 111% bonus for the story and wrong box and the knife with a replacement sheath.

Codger (giving that famous Mike Nelson wide eyed, arched blond eyebrow, surprised stare) :eek:
 
"Call me Ishmael"........

You know what they call a "High Roller" or a person with way too much money.....that's right, a whale. I'd say someone swallowed that story just like a whale. Probably blew past the baleen, right to the belly.
Well then, maybe the waters haven't settled yet on Schrades...... :footinmou

Back to my reruns of Sea Hunt.

Bill
 
Codger_64 said:
.... One might think that the inclusion of an original box would not appreciably alter the selling price, but it does.
Click to expand...

Almost anything with the original packaging will increase in value, I've been sayin' for years to save the original boxes if you can, and it's the cheaper boxes that dissappear first no one saves them, what for, it was a cheap knife?

There'll be plenty of wood boxes and presentation case available for everyone to see, but the current retail boxes will in short supply and eventually non existent.

Codger_64 said:
....Myself, I would rather have a mint knife with a mint sheath for $60 than have the box thrown in for another $25. An exception might be where there is a special edition and a display box was a part of the original package. That I can understand. But not on a stock knife.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way but since I have the room I keep the boxes and more times than not If I sell, it brings more money.


Codger_64 said:
.... Maybe I should be in the box business. Replacement classic boxes.
Click to expand...

I'll store 'em for you. :)

A quick question, did you track all this info on a spreadsheet, and if you did, do you have a copy of the template?

I do the same thing but the tracking becomes tedious without some sort of spread sheet.
 
No spreadsheet. Others have them, but I just made my own quickie format in Notepad. I copy/paste when I need a new entry. Each page is a different pattern. Maybe someone here does have a spreadsheet format to share.
1.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6529413993
Tang: Schrade USA 165
Blade: Good used, Lt spots, patina, sharp but not sharpened, no pits,cracks,or rust
Sheath: Needs cleaning, good used
Shipping: $6.05 (Pittsburgh , PA)
Start May-01-05 $19.99
May-08 $31.01
@End May-08-05 $34.01
***************************************
2.

Tang:
Blade:
Sheath:
Shipping:
Start
May
@End

***************************************

Codger
Codger
Codger :D
 
I recently sold a PH1 on ebay. To one potential buyer, of intense interest was whether or not the included leather wrist thong was original. Gave me an idea for a future auction. Tell me the truth, gents, think I would snag a buyer with this?


Title: Genuine Black Leather wrist thongs Schrade Loveless PH1
The real thing! Discovered in a bin at Schrade factory Item number: 461957531

Starting bid: US $20.00

Buy it nowprice: US $50.00

Time left: --
Start time: Jun-25-05 04:29:36 PDT
History: 0 bids
Item location: See my other auctions for more knives
United States

Ships to: Worldwide
Shipping costs: US $10.00 - US Postal Service Priority Mail® (within United States)
Shipping, payment details and return policy

Seller information
Feedback Score: 926
Positive Feedback: 99.9%
Member since Jan-25-01 in United States

Read feedback comments
Add to Favorite Sellers
Ask seller a question
View seller's other items

PayPal Buyer Protection
Free Coverage now up to $1,000. See eligibility.
Description


Here is a real find! Genuine Black leather laces as used for wrist thongs for the wonderful Schrade/LOVELESS knife! Bob Loveless himself personally selected these laces, and Schrade president Wally Gardiner Oked each and every one.

No Schrade Professional Hunter is complete without these! A terrific collectible that can stand alone in your collection. Will only increase in value over the years. Included is a certificate of authenticity stating that these laces are 'FINAL PRODUCTION RUN!'

As per Schrade/Loveless specs, these laces are from free-ranging cattle on a small, family owned cattle ranch just outside of ELLENVILLE, NY! This family has paid taxes for years to WALDEN! PRESENTATION GRADE!

Shipping to the USA is only $10, which if insured/priority mail! Email me for details!
 

Attachments

  • 1 625.jpg
    1 625.jpg
    15.1 KB · Views: 10
Question: Hello! Does this thong come in the original box?
Question: Hey! How long is your thong?
Question: Hi! I have a PH1 with the orange handle. Do you have orange leather thongs?
Question: Howdy! Do they have the Schrade stamp, or the Uncle Henry stamp?
Question: Nice leather! Will you sell them all to me on a buy it now for $1 each?
Question: My little son is dying and his last wish is for one of these thongs. Will you end the auction early?
Question: Do you know what year PH1 these thongs fit?
Question: Are these also correct thongs for my PH3?
Question: Is your name Taylor?


Codger
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
BAHHHHHAAAA!

As a long time seller on ebay, Mike, I can assure you, no matter how tongue in cheek your 'questions to the seller' were, I have heard stranger and funnier ones--for real.

But thanks for the tips! I now know what further information will be required in my auction!

BAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA
 
I forgot one!
Question: Do thes thongs come from female cows or male cows? :D

Codger
 
2 Questions for the seller, please:

1. Were these thongs, and the bin, closely guarded and kept mint by an older German guy named Max Schmeling, to be used for his retirement?

2. Will this thong fit my girlfriend?

Please follow up, as I'm considering selling the original Bowie knife to buy all of the lot.

Regards,

P. T. Barnum

Just Kidding of course...... ;)
 
Codger_64 said:
I forgot one!
Question: Do thes thongs come from female cows or male cows? :D

Codger
Click to expand...
You better buy these up Mike, w/the recent Mad Cow Disease scare, there is no where for these pre/MCD/preTaylor offerings to go but up in price...."Do you have an orange one?"...thats too funny....I appreciate the humor....I am saddened the way all the vultures are trying to clean the Schrade bones to the marrow, tho....
 
When you stop to think about it, we are all bone pickers in a way. Arrowhead bought machinery that is now making Harley Davidson knives and some Smith and Wesson knives, and I bought a few hats, some original folding knives from local dealer's remaining stocks, some fixed blades from Ebay sellers and friends here, and the "barest of bones" some of the raw, semi-finished, and near finished fixed blade blanks from the closed Ellenville plant.

Imperial Schrade has been gone for almost a year now, having died on or near it's 100th birthday. It is said by many that it died of natural causes, but some details of events point to industrial espionage with hints of betrayals by players who "kissed Schrade on the cheek" for the centurians and took their pieces of silver, some elements of gross mismanagement, and hankey-pankey from backroom foriegn investors. And some think it was just a matter of economic realities coming home to roost.

Workers who made Schrades now work for Taylor Brands LLC., Arrowhead, likely for Camillus, Bear & Son, and Canal Street Cutlery, and for some small custom shops, I hear. Some moved on to other industries, and others from the unemployment line to menial jobs as greeters at Walmart and burger flippers at Wendy's. A few may still be in one of the government retraining programs and no doubt more than one just retired broken hearted.

The fact that the Schrade names live on under the new license owner is indeed a burr under the saddle of many, but I doubt that the buying public really cares. Aside from a few brand loyal folks like myself, and a few collectors like myself and my friends here that is. And let's not forget those consumers who go for name brands but have a deep aversion to buying chinese made goods.

Schrade is not the only cutlery company to go through bankruptcy and closure this century. Few really noticed when Colonial Knife Company did the same thing a few years before Schrade. Some of the same factors (and it is rumored, players :eek: ) were involved, with guidence of generational cutlers and skilled craftsmen ignored by stockholders and hired consultants who were apt to pick up a sharp knife by it's blade and cared more for their own nest than the bird that was feeding them.

Colonial, unlike Schrade, was reborn and is reclaiming it's market share and then some. Much to the horror of those who wished it ill health, I am sure. I have had a very lengthy interview with Steve Paolantonio, grandson of Colonial founder Antonio Paolantonio, which is now available online thanks to ColonialKnifeFan's allowing me to use his website and bandwidth. I purposely probed for connections and similarities between Colonial and Schrade in that interview. I explored both ancient and modern history, current goals, and future plans. The events read like a Michner novel, though my skills as an author are sorely lacking.

I wanted to post it here in an appropriate area of BladeForums, but my request for posting permission was never answered, so it is off site.

If anyone cares to read the interview, it can be found here: http://members.aol.com/ColonialKnifeFan/
It is titled "Interview of Steve Paolantonio (Interview by Codger)" in the left sidebar under WHAT'S NEW.

Codger
 
Codger,
Nice job on the interview. Steve seems like an easy going kinda executive. Nice to see another US company trying to recover from the issues of the 80's and 90's. Going through my knives I found some great examples of their older patterns that were made before they took to the lower price line. Nice stuff.
Their current US made knives are a return to that older better quality.
Thanks for getting Steve to come out and play with us Knife Knutts.
TTYL
Larry
 
Good job for sure on the SteveP interview. I like the guy. Never met him, just 'know' him from these forums, have heard he has a short fuse, but I just plain like the man and wish him and his company well. Would someone tell me how to buy one of his knives????

This whole thread is so typical us. The Schrade forum. We get on a subject, dance around it, highjack it, shift it's focus and pretty soon we're discussing ping pong balls, LT's socks, and my Marguarita drinking shirts.

I hate knife boxes, but appreciate their $ value when selling the knives. Life was much simpler when one could simply stick his new knives in a roll and the heck with the box.

Hope you all having a pleasant Sunday.
Phil
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top