A bunch of stuff you already knew (sharpening)

unit

unit

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Nov 22, 2009
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My wonderful wife got a Sharpmaker for me for Christmas (you may not have known that part), and I spent yesterday trying to love it.

Here is the part you probably *did* already know....

I was attempting to polish the edges of a Spyderco S30V which is reported (by Sal on the video) to have a 30 degree edge. I discovered that this was mostly true, except for the last half inch of the blade (near the tip) where the grind is a bit steeper (probably mid 30s?). Yes, I tilted the edge to follow the curve of the knife, and even exaggerated it trying to get a polish. Ultimately I concluded that the angle got steeper in this portion of the blade because short of twisting my wrist to open the angle up, I could not polish the whole edge.

I supposed I could have opted for the 40 degree angle and just sharpened it up, but I really was married to the idea of a proper 30 degree edge with a nice polish (instead of those factory grind marks). Making this long story short, it took forever and ultimately I abandoned the idea of doing it on the Sharpmaker 30 degree setting and used the stones like a bench stone and ground it by hand.

I have read people talking about sharpening by hand and letting the knife be sharpened on *its* edge rather than forcing things with an aligner (or a Sharpmaker). I guess I understand these concepts a bit better now after working with S30V. I would still like to fully make the edge "mine" by putting a real 30 degree edge on it, but after these results, I am in much less of a hurry to do it (things turned out really well)

Letting the knife speak to you by sharpening on a flat stone feels a lot more zen-like than running a knife across a V (Sharpmaker) or on some aligner. I suppose the ultimate "zen" comes from understanding what angle works best and forcing the tool to your vision, but that will have to come another day for me I guess.

Not sure if anyone cares or understands what I am talking about. I think what I learned is that if you simply want a sharp knife, you could easily have it if you get a Sharpmaker, a decent knife, and use the 40 degree setting (hoping that your knife has a good 30 degree back bevel). OTOH if you want to get a real feeling of satisfaction (and perhaps understanding), taking the time to sharpen on a bench stone will put a smile on your face. I am struggling to find the words to express it, but "zen" keeps springing to mind. When you find the edge of your knife and learn to work with it on a nice stone/hone/whatever it feels great. I am guessing that you know what I am talking about if you are reading this...otherwise you would simply send your knife back to its maker for a re-sharpen.
 
I get it...thanks for posting.

I recently had a similar experience with a Delica that needed to be re-profiled. It was VG-10 steel and the Spyderco Diamond rods worked well. I now have a nice 15 degree per side edge on it. Of course your zen method works too. Congrats on your success.
 
i totally get hat your saying, i am getting some stones in the mail soon from e z lap, and i have never thought about getting a sharpmaker. I hear people say its the best and its so easy but i prefer by hand since the stones are much more useful.
 
cgmblade said:
.... Delica that needed to be re-profiled. It was VG-10 steel and the Spyderco Diamond rods worked well...
Click to expand...


I thought for a while that perhaps I needed Diamond rods. Still not sure if I want them AND a collection of nice bench stones.

To be clear, I love this Sharpmaker and will use it a lot for the MANY jobs that are more work than pleasure. My family(s) rely on me to sharpen lots of kitchen knives and this thing is GREAT that...and for the jobs I do not want to spend a lot of time on.

On my favorite knives...I like to spend the time and enjoy the experience, probably going to stick with bench stones for these in the future.
 
Brother pretty much what you said is the reason for the existence of this sub-forum. NO ONE who didn't garner and unusual sense of calm, purpose, dedication, accomplishment or any number of further descriptives from doing what we do would obsess and fuss and spend money to the extent we do. And Zen is a great word to sum it all up. Sounds better than "twisted OCD fixation" too lol. My cousin phrased it well over the holiday here, watching me work over his well-used SAK, he told me I looked like a surgeon plying my trade the way I worked the knife on the plates and strops. That's what its all about.

As for the op, I will get a sharpmaker here shortly for a few specific purposes (want to experiment with micro-bevels, checking edge angles and light touch ups on the road, where I spend a great deal of time), but nothing will ever replace bench stones and strops done freehand, if for no other reason than the above.
 
Well said Gotsouthern. I started out on the Sharpmaker and it got me started at getting really sharp edges, but freehand is my thing now. I love being able to put a mirrored edge on that anyone that knows about Edge Pros assumes I used one to get that shiny edge. It is great to say "No, just freehand" with pride. It takes lots of practice, OCD, and certainly lots of money spent (I just bought the DMT XX Fine for the he'll of it to try it out even though I have 2 other similar grit stones that work great) on too many stones to count to get to that level, but I still obsess and look for that next stone or tip or trick to get my edges to the next step in sharpness. I'm still searching for the next best test for sharpness for beyond hair whittling sharp, and maybe going backwards to push cutting newsprind as far as possible from the point of hold (I'm past 7" now with the good steels) is that test. Sharpening is a sickness at some point, and I definately understant the OP's passion to get the whole edge right. What the OP should take from that experience is that factory edges are uneven and never the same angle from knife to knife, so to make the knife your own a full rebevelling is in order on you knives. All but the sharpest out of the box Spydercos or anything from Tom Krein get used until dull prior to sharpening with me, every other knife I buy gets a full rebevelling and sharpening prior to use.

Mike
 
I'm going to take a wild guess at this.

Your holding the knife straight when using the sharpmaker? so as you run the edge down the stone from choil to tip you never move the knife out of its straight path? The problem is that once you reach the curve you can no longer hold the knife 90 degrees to the sharpmaker, you must follow the curve. This would be done by moving the handle towards the other stone. This motion is the same you would use on a benchstone to follow the curve, if you cut a straight 15 degree angle into a knifes edge then the tip would almost always be fatter than the main edge. It would be like trying to sharpen on a benchstone without lifting the handle.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Your holding the knife straight when using the sharpmaker?
Click to expand...

Nope. I tilted the edge to follow the curve of the knife.

You would have to see this knife to fully understand the non-uniformity I am talking about. I could follow a path for the right stone and get perfect stone contact on the Sharpmaker, but the mirror image movement on the left stone would never contact the lower half of the edge (in the area I am talking about).

I follow you, and appreciate what you are saying, but it was just too awkward to develop different/dis-similar strokes for left and right side on the sharpmaker. It may sound odd, but it just seemed easier to follow the knifes edge on a bench stone (for me).

My simple brain gets confused when you take the stone out of the horizontal plane I guess? It just seems easier (for me) to hold the stone to simplest datum I know (Horizontal plane) and let the knife move accordingly.
 
Diamond rods would have helped you "unit". I'm glad you were able to reach your desired level of sharpness! Happy Holidays!
 
To be honest, getting a consistent bevel from choil to tip is, to me, one of the hardest parts of proper free hand sharpening. Besides a consistent bevel from side to side of the knife. Most blade designs with any amount of belly to them (ie not wharncliff) seems to WANT a slightly steeper edge towards the tip. In some cases, it almost makes sense to let the blade tell you what it wants. The added strength that comes with a slightly steeper angle is a good thing out there where the metal is thinnest and often takes some of the most punishment. Besides, seems pretty trick to me to have two different edge angles at two points on a given knife blade intentionally for different purposes of that section of edge. I'd be interested to hear some of your thoughts on this.

Unit, no intention of hijacking your thread here (just don't mention large caliber handguns and gunmike and I both will be ok lol), just wanted to throw that out there as it seems very relevant to your issue.
 
Gotsouthern said:
To be honest, getting a consistent bevel from choil to tip is, to me, one of the hardest parts of proper free hand sharpening. Besides a consistent bevel from side to side of the knife. Most blade designs with any amount of belly to them (ie not wharncliff) seems to WANT a slightly steeper edge towards the tip. In some cases, it almost makes sense to let the blade tell you what it wants. The added strength that comes with a slightly steeper angle is a good thing out there where the metal is thinnest and often takes some of the most punishment. Besides, seems pretty trick to me to have two different edge angles at two points on a given knife blade intentionally for different purposes of that section of edge. I'd be interested to hear some of your thoughts on this.

Unit, no intention of hijacking your thread here (just don't mention large caliber handguns and gunmike and I both will be ok lol), just wanted to throw that out there as it seems very relevant to your issue.
Click to expand...

I have no issue with a bit of thread-drift. In fact I was thinking along these lines as I was sharpening yesterday.

I can see a lot of utility of an intentionally variable grind on a blade. The only problem I have with the idea is to decide where to put the thin angle and where to put the thicker angle.

I guess for the way I use my knife I would like to try a thinner (more delcate but better for finer precision cutting) near the tip, and the thicker angle near the choil where I tend to cut stock in the shop (rubber hose, rope, card board, etc).

Perhaps that is a dumb idea but at least I can re grind it if need.

I suppose I will need a bigger knife to try this with. Gotta have enogh realestate to play with, right? Guess I now have the excuse I need for a new blade!
 
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