A certain moderator needs to chill out.

A

Art M

Joined
Dec 29, 1998
Messages
284
I wasn't sure where to post this to get adequate responses so here goes -- On the Busse and JSP areas a BladeForums member (Ryu) asked a simple question (post is titled JSP vs. Busse), "what is the better knife - a Busse or a JSP?" The moderator (Andy) of the Busse forum immediately closes the topic and states "this thread ends here." The moderator then went to the JSP area and again took an extremely defensive posture.

I was utterly dissappointed and, quite frankly, pissed off at Andy's response to this post. Ryu is simply seeking information. He did not in any way offend or antagonize either JSP or Busse. Ryu even had the courtesy to post the same topic on both the JSP and Busse forums. In the JSP post Andy went on to say that this topic could be "researched and retrieved in a better fashion and with a different title" - well, I can't think of a better place to research and retrieve information of this nature. In Bladeforums.com's own words (see "about us") "We decided to provide a world class information site where all would be welcome, and where each and every product would stand on it's own merits."

Andy might want to come down off his high horse and stop playing moderator cop. After all, the free flow of information is what makes this forum great.

Interestingly, when I went to Andy's web site I saw he is a distributor for Busse knives
wink.gif
. Well, I guess that explains it.

Regards,

Art
 
Well, some moderators believe in moderation more than other moderators. I kind of liked Ryu's approach. You really aren't likely to find many people who have experience with both products. He went to the place where he is likeliest to find people with experience with one of the products. He asks his question in a provocative way that will likely generate partisan responses. This is won't be a technical problem since he will have a very good idea where the opinions are coming from.

To me this sounds like fun. It sounds informative. It sounds harmless. I don't think this calls for moderator intervention.
 
I lodged a long post about the same thing. Although I think Andy made a mistake, the motivations weren't what you think. Andy and Jerry didn't want to embarass anyone by being seen to encourage comparisons, which they knew would be fovourable to Busse, where the other side of the comparison hadn't challenged Busse's claims or qualities. I argued at some length that noone could criticise them for moderating a forum where such comparisons were made and that such comparisons were a perfectly appropriate part of the Forum. Cliff suggested that if there was some sensitivity maybe the post could be moved the a General Forum, which seems to me like a reasonable solution. I don't think the motivation was to censor discussion or criticism of the Busse product. They have yet to back away from any challenge I know of.
I readily give Andy the benefit of the doubt on this one, and I think he deserves it. I completely understand and agree with the concerns expressed, but I don't think it deserves to become a big deal. I'm moving on. I'm too busy using my Busse's and anticipating the next contest
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[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 03-01-2000).]
 
Art,

I didn't like the way the thread was closed down. But, none-the less, I understand why it was done.

Ryu questions was poised in a very open ended manner. There was a real risk that the discussion would have degenerated into an ugly popularity contest between the fans of the two vendors. Again, I wouldn't have closed the thread down, I only would have requested that the question be restated in a less hypothetical way.

Perhaps Ryu should restate the question.
 
I have absolutely no idea what transpired, here.
I do have an opinion (which I ,normally, keep to myself) (joke !) about intervention by moderators.
It is : "don't intervene unless bloodshed or lawsuit is indicated"
Why the bloody hell do we need to be protected from the divergent opinions of other members ?

Maybe so we can get on Oprah ??
I mean.....this is such a "nice " place. Surely we can afford some difference of opinion without becoming a rabble ??
confused.gif




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BrianWE
 
"don't intervene unless bloodshed or lawsuit is indicated"

I can think of other reasons. I'm not familiar with this situation so I can't really comment. But it's my understanding that personal attacks, i.e. outright namecalling is banned at BF and IMHO, it should be, and moderated heavily. And BTW,people who think they can slide on this by attacking "what people are saying" with slurs are also slurring the people who make the posts. These so-called indirect attacks are in reality direct personal attacks. You can't call what someone says crap without implying that the person who said it is also full of crap.

I don't have a problem with people arguing hot and heavy as long as they try to stick to some kind of logic, but when people start slinging mud, I think moderators should step in and close the thread. We are no longer talking about people's opinions of "things" but people's opinions of other people, i.e., personal attacks. Ad hominenum arguments are pure crap and anyone that employs them is nothing but a dirty rotten no good lousy **&/##@ **^&$#))

There. I've said it. I feel better now.
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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
Go right ahead and post the same question here on the general forum. Everything is allowed on the net -- in its proper place. In this case the proper place is right here on the same website ... what's to complain about? As some of you may recall, I'm as ready as the next fellow to start a flame war over censorship, but ... is this really the time to mobilize the reserves and arm the nuclear weapons?

Maybe I shouldn't even post this because now I have "moderator" after my name whenever I post on any of the forums on this site, and people might think I'm just sticking up for another moderator. Sheesh ... everybody and his hamster is a moderator of some forum somewhere, or used to be until he got tired of it ... I'm no more "moderate" than I ever was.



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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
You may want to read this thread before you respond to "this" thread.
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000087.html

Basically Andy felt that since Jerry and James are good friends it would be in the best interest of those two forums to not have each compare themsleve to each other.

The question is best suited for this forum so the opinions of our readers can help people make a educated buying decision.

So with that in mind I stand behind Andy's decison. I will be at the Blade Show, booth #81 should anyone wish to beat me
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
 
In addition to all this, my personal opinion is that the people running each of the maker/manufacturer forums need to be treated slightly differently. To a degree, it's as if you're stepping into Jerry Busse's shop, or Bill Martino's living room, or Sal Glesser's office.

I think they're each going to put a bit of "personal stamp" on their subforums that may lead to a "culture" slightly different than that of BF as a whole.

Does that make sense? By realizing this and having Mike and Spark support this, we're more likely to attract more makers/manufacturers.

This is potentially a controversial tack. And there's probably limits...we've seen what happens when a particular moderator of such a forum becomes too "prickly". (And no, if you don't know who I might be even peripherally discussing, don't even ask
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)

I advocate more slack for such people, but not an unlimited license to freak out
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.

(And yes, I feel that forums like Community, Reviews and others are a different category, and should conform more closely to BF cultural norms.)

Jim
 
I personally think that Andy handled this situation better than I would have, with a bit more decorum, but then, I'm not the most diplomatic of individuals.

Busse and JSP market to two pretty different segments of the knife industry, IMHO, and from what I've seen, the two have a good deal of respect for each other. Rather than start a discussion in the two areas where you would probably get the most "biased" responses at all, I'm going to agree with Cliff that the discussion would probably have been better of in this forum.

Anyhow, I don't think any major feathers were ruffled, and I'd be happy to see the topic pop up here... where people can discuss the ins and outs to their heart's content (even though I maintain that they are two seperate markets....)

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I'll just weigh in with my thought that I don't think threads should be closed for what "might" be said, until it is actually said.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"That which does not kill me just postpones the inevitable."
 
I don't have a real problem with the decision made by Andy. I can see where he's coming from and that's fine, I guess.

He could, however, just ignored the thread. Forumities that had an opinion could have responded to the thread and maybe it could have gone places
wink.gif
.

Andy could have been fine by just pretending to not know of the threads existance, lol. Hey, it'd work!

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Yeah! Drop the chalupa...

[This message has been edited by Stompy (edited 03-02-2000).]
 
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