A couple of questions.

D

dispatch 510

Joined
May 17, 2005
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What is the differance between S30V steel and 420HC? I was on Bucks website designing my custom 110 and noticed the two differant steels. Also does anyone have a Paklite Skinner, I really like the looks of that one.

Thanks for reading.
 
Dispatch, The S30V steel is a high preformance steel, made by powder metallurgy with vanadium which gives it better edge retention . Whereas, 420HC is made using standard mfg. processes, is a good stainless and will sharpen easier . I don't own a Paklite by I'm sure you'll enjoy one . DM
 
dispatch,

s30v is considerd to be a premium, if not the premium knife steel. It is produced by a company called Crucible Industries and is a powdered metal product rather than a traditional rolled steel product. When properly heat treated(as Paul Bos is wont to do), it produces a blade that has superior edge retention to most or all other blade steels. 420hc is a journeymans steel that is very good in regard to anti-corrosion quality and is softer and much easier to sharpen. 420hc requires that expert heat treating abilities of Bos at Buck to be an excellent blade steel. It is my understanding that 420hc outside of Bos and Buck is not a great quality steel product. Those much more in the know will be along and can add, subtract or correct this info as they see fit.

ps: It seems I wrote this dissertation while DM was giving a succint answer at the same time.
 
Ima, You did a good job . I merely offered the short version . I almost didn't give any version because I didn't know about the Paklite knife . DM
 
I have both of the paklites. I really like them alot! Very simple yet well designed knives. I used them last fall on a couple whitetails and they worked great!

I wont anything further to the steel question, the previous posts did a fantastic job on that ;)
 
Here is a quote from another thread:

Bill Keys said:
The three steels first mentioned here, 440C, 425M and 420HC all are good steels and all have their place. When peopel talk about toughness, I am not sure if they are referring to the true technical term of toughness, which is a measure of a steels ductility (ability to deform/bend before fracturing). I am also not sure what is meatn by lateral strength. Abrasion resistance is closely tied to sharpness obviously.
440C is a good blade steel; it holds an edge well IF H/T PROPERLY AND EDGED AND SHARPENED WITH THE CORRECT ANGLE. Without both of these things being present, 440C doesn't function any beter than "cheaper" steels. 440C does not have as good of corrosion resistance as 425M or 420HC; 440C also has larger carbides that create a more course grain structure which affects ductility and strength.
425M and 420HC are VERY close to each other in all respects. Both have better corrosion resistance than 440C and both have finer grain structures than 440C, thus generally better ductility and more uniform hardness throughout the blade. If H/T AND EDGED AND SHARPENED PROPERLY, BOTH FUNCTION AS AN EXCELLENT GENERAL PURPOSE CUTLERY STEEL. Again, the key is both of the things must be present. We have seen 420HC (as well as 440C) out perform (initial sharpness and edge holding) ATS34, BG42 and S30V that was NOT heat treated well or edged and sharpend correctly.
You will always see me reference 420HC intentionally because 420 stainless can have a carbon content from .2% to .45%, and still be called 420 stainless. 420HC is 420 stainless with a minimum Carbon content specified, whcih is what Buck does. 420HC is really not an AISI (American Iron and Steel Institute) designation.
If you appreciate and want a "higher" performing steel in the strength and sharpness catagories, then select one of our S30V models. We heat treat them right and usually know how to edge and sharpen them correctly.

All of the info above we have developed over a number of years via testing in our QA lab, using CATRA machines, tensile test machines, salt water exposure tests and metalography.

Bill Keys
Director of Manufacturing and Engineering
Buck Knives, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
Another good quote from another thread:

Bill Keys said:
Steel is like a good internet rumor; a lot of mystique, some truth, some slight of hand and a whole lot of (mis)conceptions. In terms of corrosion resistance, 420HC is superior to both S30V or 154CM. We have run a number of tests/trials in our Engineering and QA groups over the a number of years, and 420HC consistently provides the best corrosion resistance. It is also better than 440C in this area.

As far as edge holding, using Buck's heat treat and edging process, S30V is best, 154CM next and then 420HC; I specifically reference Buck's processes here because we have (CATRA) tested other's products (heat treated and edged by them) and have found knives with 154CM, ATS34, etc do not perform (edge retention) as well as our 420HC; don't under estimate the value of heat treat and proper edging/sharpening.

On toughness, in most cases, S30V will probably outperform 420HC and 154CM. To obtain maximum sharpness and edge holding out of the 420HC, we push the envelope on hardness for this type of material. That is not to say 420HC does not have some ductility, but maximum toughness for 420HC would be obtained in the Rc 55-58 range, but that plays heck with edge retention. The chemistry of S30V is such that when properly heat treated it give very good edge retention and good toughness.

Oh, heat treat can also have an impact on corrosion resistance; poor/improper heat treat can negatively impact the corrosion resistance of all of these steels.

ATS34 is Japanese 154CM; the chemistry is virtually identical. ATS34 is produced by Hitachi in Japan, and 154CM is produced by Crucible Metals in the US- BTW, Crucible was just purcahsed in bankruptcy by someone else, but they are continuing operations. A number of years ago, 154CM was difficult to get for companies such as Buck, we did not use enough of it to make it worth while for Crucible to produce for us. But at the time Hitachi was more than willing to supply the cutlery markets. this changed a few years ago, and the availabilty of 154CM was no longer a problem and for us at least, became slightly less expensive than ATS34. Thus the transition to 154CM.

So, if you want a "user" knife, can afford the upcharge, and want the best edge retention, S30V is your best option. If you want a "looker"/display knife, don't spend the extra money, just go with the 420HC. If you want a good general use knife and can't afford the premium steel the 420HC also makes a good choice. To ME, the 154CM is not a value choice either way; it is better at edge retention than 420HC, but if you're going to spend extra for that, spend a littel more and get the S30V- that is a personal opinion (I hope I haven't offended any fans of 154CM). I have carried 420HC knives for many years. I do now carry an S30V small Vantage with Paperstone handles, but that's sort of like the car lot manager getting to drive one of the Ferraris, it's one of the fringe benefits of being in that role.

Bill Keys
Director of Manufcturing and Engineering
Buck Knives, Inc
Click to expand...
 
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