A Different Breed of Survival

dougo83

dougo83

Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
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Ok guys...we all go on about how to save our own tails,family, etc. in a crisis situation. What do you do (medical-type personnel bear with me) if you come across someone else in a dire situation? Post your examples/responses here:

Scenario:

I am driving down a highway on my way to Rocksprings, TX. This is out in the middle of nowhere and an area that I have never traveled before. Very few homes and I have traveled more than 60 miles without passing another vehicle. All of the land is deer lease. I have no cell phone reception and no CB or HAM radio and there are no service stations/retail centers/restaurants for at least another 10-15 miles. It is approximately 1700 and getting cooler (mid-60's) and the sun is setting fast. The overnight temperature is supposed to drop into the mid to low 40's soon.

I approach what appears to be a pile of trash in the road. As I go to pass, I notice a motorcycle laid up on the side of the highway with the lights on and a dead deer laying near the roadway. I immediately realize that the 'trash' is in fact the motorcycle operator laying facedown in the middle of the road.

My dad and youngest brother arrived at the deer lease where I am headed a day prior to me and have the bulk of my gear with them. I have nothing more than a 1 man FAK, some bushcraft tools, a shotgun with a few rounds, a camera, a tarp, some automotive supplies, and a bag of my hunting clothes in the truck.

Now...I know the outcome of this situation. I have no idea of the condition of the operator, but I know I did what I could.

What would you do?
 
This place is over 300 miles from my house and I was at least another 30 miles or so away from meeting up with my dad at camp. However, this was my first time traveling out this way so I was not 100% on where I was headed the last few miles.
 
You do what you can.
I've been there too many times.
The hard part is not knowing the final outcome. I've been there with people that couldn't move from the neck down. 1 was a 16 year old girl. I did what I could to keep them alive until the experts got there then left, sometimes hearing later that they lived but never more than that.
That is the reason I have a better FAK than I know how to use with me at all times. I can do what I can until someone better suited comes along. When they get there I will have the tools needed even if they don't. I've been to several car wrecks where Docs or EMTs happen to be there but don't have the tools. I do.
From what I gather, you did what you could. I hope it was a good outcome however even if not you can only do what your experience and common sense allows.
Thanks for being there. If I am ever in an accident I hope someone like you will help.
 
What I did was park my truck across the highway to slow oncoming traffic. I then established that this man, Joe, was still alive. He was coherent but couldn't feel his legs. Under his own power and against my advice, he rolled/crawled out of the road. I tried to flag other cars down hoping for a local who could call 911. The first guy who stopped was literally feet from his drive and called the pros while a few more vehicles stopped and we directed traffic away from this poor guy. I left before EMS arrived in hopes of finding a State Trooper or something but passed the fire dept. truck en route. I do not know how the guy ended up. I am just curious what someone else would have down/what should I change in the future. I plan on traveling this area more frequently in the future.

and protourist...I always stop if I can. I don't care if there are 20 people already on the scene. One day it could be me.
 
well first off, hats off to you for actually stopping,. I live in the city and no one stops to assist people, even in rural areas, there is a lot of "fear" amongst people about getting out of your car and helping your fellow man/woman in need. .

anyways...

you stop, you do the best you can, checking his vitals, make sure he is breathing, stopping bleeding, etc etc. eventually someone will also stop and help out, or EMS, Police etc will be on the scene as soon as they can. You would be surprised how fast those boys can get to a scene. Or if its not a serious injury (this is NOT advice, each situ is unique) you could transport to the nearest town/house/gas station and call for help.

my incident years ago in a remote part of the hiway, was a jumper (suicidal man) that threw himself off an tall overpass into hwy speed traffic. he got hit, driven over multiple times and most of his skull was fractured. There was cranial leakage , and he had heavy gushing bleeding happening from a throat gash (car bumper, underside of car) I pressed a stack of stomach dressings into/onto the wound and put pressure on it to stop the bleeding. As luck would have it , a CDN FORCES Army truck rolled by and stopped, blocking the road to prevent us from getting hit by passing cars. They directed me to keep doing what i doing and they prpped the rest of the major injuries and prepared him for transport. The radioed CDN Forces base nearby and a Provincial Ambulance was dispatched. EMS arrrived. (20 minutes later, felt like days).

moral is, do what you can, do no harm, dont get injured yourself etc etc
 
Calling 911 and geting the help he needs is priority one. Addressing life threats and minimizing his movement comes next. When EMS/fire/law is on a scene, best bet is not to stop, Nothing gets more iritating then having a bunch of people tryin to help, and just getting in the way. We have protical and procedure for these things, and if you dont know what it is, then gettin in the mix is not helping, its mucking up the works. However, people witnessing this stuff before help has been called, PLEASE LOOK TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON, AND GIVE 911 A ACCURATE SCENE SIZE-UP. Nothing pisss me off more then people who phone stuff in at 60mph and dont even get out to see if anyone is even hurt, or even there. It waists resources.

Be advised that some places these people can and will sue you if you try to help and do harm, and might even if you do no harm. Just happened in California. Do what you think is best, but I for one wouldnt want to put my families financial well being, or my own safety at risk. I have a duty to act by law, but its not my first dance so to speak, so just dont get in over your head.
 
I've had to step-up one time and use the first aid and CPR training I've received.

For days afterwards I was messed up because I knew the outcome. I beat myself up with "I should have" and "I could have" for a while.

Then I came around to way of thinking like protourist and Bushman5. I did what I could. Not only that, I did more than the dozen or so people standing around with a gawker look on their faces.

You done good.

As for your question, I'd like to think that I'd do all I could if put in that situation again.
 
j williams said:
Be advised that some places these people can and will sue you if you try to help and do harm, and might even if you do no harm. Just happened in California. Do what you think is best, but I for one wouldn’t want to put my families financial well being, or my own safety at risk. I have a duty to act by law, but its not my first dance so to speak, so just don’t get in over your head.
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This is why a lot of people DON'T stop to help...they're afraid of getting sued if something doesn't work out. We just had an incident here in Texas over the radio where some lady was the first at the scene of a car accident. She "thought" she saw fire and attempted to pull the victim from the car and evidently did more harm then good. Laws are screwy and it's unfortunate they sometimes work against the victim and any potentially rescuer. Personally, they need include what to do when you come across an accident scene in your driver's training when you’re first getting your license. There are some basic things that you can do without making the accident victim worse; such as calling 9.11, blocking traffic or at least marking where the victim is, checking on the accident victims vitals and asking the basic questions if conscious (are you okay, what's your name, does it hurt anywhere etc.). Advanced assistance could be CPR, stopping bleeding etc., but even that is more than most people can handle.

I do agree with Jake…once the professionals get on the scene, get out of the way and render a report of what you saw if they’re taking any info. Not sure what the protocol Jake was talking about, but I know that EMS can’t start ordering bystanders around because if they get injured it’s the same old risk of litigation thing. Call 9.11, try to secure/mark the scene / victim, check on the victim and wait for EMS and then get out of the way and say a little prayer. Not much more than that unless you’re fully trained.

The case where the lady was in trouble, was that she attempted to pull the victim from the car and then didn't render any first aid (probably not knowing how) and the laws that affect this situation (they're different everywhere) is that if you "rescue" somebody, you have to render first aid; if you don't you're now open to litigation. We need to fix these laws otherwise it will be you or I or a family member bleeding or freezing to death in an accident and nobody is going to stop.

I think you did the right thing Doug...welcome back BTW!

ROCK6
 
j williams said:
Be advised that some places these people can and will sue you if you try to help and do harm, and might even if you do no harm. Just happened in California. Do what you think is best, but I for one wouldnt want to put my families financial well being, or my own safety at risk. I have a duty to act by law, but its not my first dance so to speak, so just dont get in over your head.
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I was under the impression that if you have first responder training, St. Johns Ambulance or Red Cross, that you had some type of insurance to the effect of first aid error. This of course requires you to keep up your training status by periodic refressher courses.

It really is a shame that we live in such a litigious society, the U.S. much more so than Canada, but we are moving in that direction too. Even when the victim wants nothing to do with the litigation, the lawyers prey upon family members and paint the bleak reality of their financial situation. Many people succumb to the idea that - after all they are only trying to get the other persons insurance money.

J. I remember pointedly my Wilderness First Aid responder telling us at the end of the course to remember that the initial situation assessment is the most important on many levels. First you need to be aware of the hazards of the area and ensure that you keep yourself safe. You also need to be aware that once you commit yourself to first aid action that you have to follow through until help arrives even if the patient dies on you, you have to continue administering CPR until the professionals come if a call for help has been successfully made.

The decision to go ahead with saving somebody requires a certain degree of consideration and assessment. Our moral/ethical sense tells us we need to rush in an help. Training tells us we need to stop and consider the situation before making 'the right call for the situation'.

Good post Dougo83, it sounds like you made a good choice.
 
Bushman5 said:
well first off, hats off to you for actually stopping,. I live in the city and no one stops to assist people, even in rural areas, there is a lot of "fear" amongst people about getting out of your car and helping your fellow man/woman in need. .
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. We broke down on a stretch of interstate in Alabama a while back. Water pump seized and shredded the serpentine belt. I got ahold of AAA (even though I'm not a member), and they gave me the number of a wrecker service. We waited over an hour for the wrecker. It was 95 degrees out, and we had an 18 month old baby. First concern was keeping him cool and safe, so we exited the vehicle and moved to some shade under a nearby (less than 20 yards) overpass. Not a single person stopped to ask if we needed help.
 
In Texas we have a Good Sam law...or at least we did. Haven't checked on it lately. I just didn't want to have to live with paralyzing the guy by moving him or something. I have some training from VFF days but I have forgotten most of it.

ROCK glad to be back.

dipbait...I wasn't gonna waste a tag on an animal killed like that. Meat could be tainted. Or...my luck would have TPWD on the scene as soon as I bust out my knife.
 
The summer before last we were having a family reunion in the Black Hills of SD. My wife and son and daughter wanted to o into town for some supplies as we were camped about 30 miles west of Rapid City. I decided to go along. Several miles from camp, we came across a motor cycle in the ditch the guy had a badly broken and still caught under the bike. My son lifted the bike enough that he slowly got the leg out from under the bike. He wanted us to try to get him into the car but I was not about to try to move the guy because back at the camp we had two registered nurse who were my wife's sisters. Another car came by and stopped. We ask him to stop at out camp and tell one of the nurse to come out. We got a couple of his bags settled for him to lean against and my daughter had a sleeping bag in her trunk so although he said he was not cold, we covered him up anyway. The second car that stopped was a resident of the area and he had a land line at his house and he would call the local rescue team. The cell phones wouldn't work in that area. The nurse got there and looked him over a little and we decided it would be best not to move him and just wait with him there. About 20 minutes later the local rescue team got there and got him on a stretcher and a few minutes later the ambulance got there.

The guy told us that he was afraid that nobody would stop but in the time we were there , five cars came by and every one stopped to try to help. The sheriffs office was the last to get there but they loaded the guys bike on a trailer and we all went on our way,
 
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Seriously, now. Im trained for these situations. Id open and maintain the airway, move him as little as possible, but the airway cannot be compromised. Theres a lot of things Id like to do but being alone Id have to make a judgement call on holding c spine, applying pressure to bleeding, placing patient in shock position... It sure would be nice to have some help.
 
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j williams said:
Be advised that some places these people can and will sue you if you try to help and do harm, and might even if you do no harm.
Click to expand...

That's incredibly sad. Unless it's changed since I took CPR waaayyy back in high school, Wisconsin has a "Good Samaritan" law that protects you from liability if you make an honest good-faith attempt to aid an injured person. My instructor at the time explained it like this, "If you give them CPR and somehow break all their ribs, they can't sue you because you were honestly trying to save their life." To me that's just common sense but... you know how common that is.

The only thing I really have to add is, although it wasn't necessary in your case because other people stopped to help, is that you did have a shotgun and I presume some ammo for it. A shotgun blast can sometimes be heard for miles, and 3 quick shots will get anyone's attention. I figure if someone outdoorsy doesn't recognize the "survival signal", maybe someone will think it's a bad guy or kids making trouble and call the cops, which of course would be great in that instance.

I have stopped at a couple aftermaths of deer vs. car, luckily each time no one but the deer had been hurt, they had cell phones etc, so I didn't have to stick around. *knock on wood*

In closing let me say that I'm sure this is FAR more common than being alone in the woods for a month, it is truly a survival situation! Seconds count and you may have saved his life just by blocking the lane.
 
Ill tell you one thing. If Im the patient in this situation , Id rather have someone like J Williams happen by than a M.D.
 
dipbait said:
Ill tell you one thing. If Im the patient in this situation , Id rather have someone like J Williams happen by than a M.D.
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No joke...with the docs I've dealt with I would much rather have an EMT or some such person.
 
i see posts like this every so often, seems like first aid should be a course taught in high school along with how to balance your check book. this is some basic stuff here. first responder stuff, everyone should know basic aid. interesting that we talk about getting lost in the woods when this scenario is much more likely.

call the red cross and get a first aid course under your belt.

alex
 
James_Terrio said:
I have stopped at a couple aftermaths of deer vs. car, luckily each time no one but the deer had been hurt, they had cell phones etc, so I didn't have to stick around. *knock on wood*
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I've come across a couple of accidents in NYC where no one was injured, but the driver didn't realized he was disoriented. I wouldn't say either time he was in shock, but he wasn't thinking clearly. All I had to do was keep him from driving off until he had calmed down, but it was a strange situation each time seeing them start shaking when they realized what could have happened.
 
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