A Disertation on "Knife Economics"

Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
280
This post is promted by a number of posts I have read recently that ask questions like: "Why was 'this-or-that' knife discontinued?"; "I wish they'd offer a model that had 'X'"; and "Why doesn't anyone make a ____ ?"

One poster said it best: "XX is a business. If there was money to be made, they'd still be making it." Once said, this becomes self evident to everyone here. What might not be plainly obviouse to everyone here is that we (the readers and contributers of bladeforums.com) account for just a neeny-tiny percentage of knife sales. We represent the most prolific, and well educated (on knife stuff, anyway) segment of the knife buying public.

As an excercise, put yourself in the shoes of an average joe who realizes he bought the wrong length shoe laces. He fishes around the kitchen, but all the steak knives are dirty, so he has to settle for a butter knife. He toils and saws and pulls, and eventually manages to trim/fray the laces down to the right length. As a result of the experience, he decides he could use a pocket knife. Now ask yourself: "Where is average-joe going to go to get a pocketknife?" The answer is not the local mom-and-pop knife shop. He's going to forget about it until the next time he's in the Wal-mart, and wanders by the knife case. The bulb floating over his head is going to blink, and he'll remember he need a pocket knife. He'll go to the case, something will catch his eye, he'll by it and be on his way.

Now, what criteria did average-joe use to by his knife? Next to none. He bought a knife that looked alright, and was likely one of the cheapest ones in the case. He might have asked the clerk a silly question or two like "Is that knife sharp?" but chances are that the clerk just shrugged and picked his nose.

Average-joe is who's buying 70-80 percent of the knives. Even companies like Benchmade are selling to a largely ignorant customer base. LE and Military people, on average, are only marginally smarter on knife stuff. The only difference between average-joe and a soldier is that the soldier wants something with a "tactical" look. This is evidenced by the fact that all the BM NSNed models are black coated, paritially serrated blades. Most of you, if given a choice, would chose a plain/bare blade. But the masses and the marketing department decide what sells.

Here in Iraq, I sharpen about 40 knives a week. Most of them are crap or worse. Often times, I don't have the heart to tell a troop his knife broke because it was made out of pot metal by a 12 year-old girl in a Chinese sweat shop. Sure it looked mean, but you can only buy so much "mean" for $9.99. I dole out advise on knives when asked. There are plenty of economical and reliable knives available. And most consumers want to make informed choices.

Meanwhile, the knife manufactures struggle to balance a quality product with wide appeal at a price that people will pay. People like us can have a huge impact on a companies reputation, and because people like us exist, many companies continue to stive for excellence in their product. Unfortunatly, there are companies that don't seem to give a wit about the quality of their product, and are simply trading on a reputation earned decades ago by people who have long since left the company.

So to all of you, my beloved and most vocal minority: Keep informed, and more importantly, strive to inform others. We may not be able to get the message to every farmer who buys a $3 knife down at the feed store, but we can help some folks understand why two seemingly identical knives have a $50 price difference (I'm anticipating the S30V Leek).

Thank you. I love you all. Now go ahead and disembowl me :)
 
Jemelby,
Great post.
Thank you for serving! :thumbup:
What are you sharpening with?
Doug
 
Jemelby, I certainly couldn't have said this any better. Your concepts, which are right on the money, echo many products most of us purchase throughout life. My real fear is that most people tend to focus on price as it is foisted on us continuously. Everything in life is becoming a commodity in which case, price is usually the determining factor in the buying decision. Quality is way in the back seat as most buyers cannot define "what is quality" any longer.

As time goes on, many will never realize what "quality" really was. Quality takes a back seat to glitter and price. Hence the variety of POS knives for $10 bucks that look like they could take out Rambo.

Restaurants are a great example. With the roll up ownership by major corporations, the emphasis is on the "look and feel" of the restaurant; certainly not on the quality of the food. It works, as most people don't know what really good food is all about.

I see no reason for the forumites to disembowel you, but if they do, I'm there with you.

Keep safe, my prayers are with you and your comrades.
 
Well said. Like you stated the members here only make up a small portion of people that actually carry knives whether there good or not.

A perfect example is that if you see someone with a knife and ask what steel it is and they don't know just goes to show that they don't care as long as it cuts.
 
>>>>"Now, what criteria did average-joe use to by his knife? Next to none. He bought a knife that looked alright, and was likely one of the cheapest ones in the case. He might have asked the clerk a silly question or two like "Is that knife sharp?" but chances are that the clerk just shrugged and picked his nose."

===========

Rarely have I read truer words on this forum. :-)
 
leatherbird said:
Jemelby,
What are you sharpening with?
Doug

Before coming over here, I invested in an Edge Pro. That, along with a variety of ultra-fine ceramic stones, a couple of DMT diamond stones, and a good strop make up my "sharpening menagerie." I've made it my secondary mission to ensure everyone has a sharp knife :)
 
Thanks for posting back!
Sounds like ya' got all the bases covered. :thumbup: :D
 
I agree. I'm a LEO/Certified Instructor and lead a High Risk Entry/SWAT Team. About every officer I know carries a patrol folder and probably half the SWAT Operators I know carry a fixed blade.

I can second Jemelby's theory on their method of selection. He's right on the money. Most Patrol Officers know and care more about the pens they use than the knife in their back pocket. SWAT Operators tend to be better about this, but often not by much...

Now I have no problem with a relatively low cost knife of good quality, if a guy does his research and decides that's the best one for his needs. Heck, my favored folder for concealed patrol carry is the Gerber Gator II with fine edge. My heartburn is that too many LEOs buy the cheapest knife they can find, or a "black knife" that has the word "Tactical" or "SWAT" on the box or stamped on it somewhere.

So being, I just submitted a lesson plan to the POST Board for approval, entitled "The Law Enforcement Knife" (I considered calling it "LEO Knives For Dummies"...). I wrote up a 4 hour block on the basics of knives for LEOs, to include selecting, maintaining, sharpening, carrying, deploying, and in a last ditch scenario, the very basics of it's use as a deadly force weapon...
 
ndterminator said:
I wrote up a 4 hour block on the basics of knifes for LEOs, to include selecting, maintaining, sharpening, carrying, deploying, and in a last ditch scenario, the very basics of it's use as a deadly force weapon...


Terminator, I have a lot of friends and family actively working as small town LEOs, some chiefs, some patrolmen, some undercover, and a few working in some form or capacity in their area as SWAT (mostly serving warrants).

I wonder if you could send me a copy of your training guide so that I could offer it to a few of the chiefs I know.

Most of the officers I work and play with are pretty much just as you described, working with knives that are far below the quality you would want to depend on.

Contact me by email or PM me to let me know.

-Sun Runner-
 
Jemelby, I'd be interested in hearing more about the knives your seeing over there.
 
Benchmade and Spyderco, maybe some other companies, should get together and make a a cardboard cutout thing for knife counters with a quick and dirty FAQ on knives.

I mean, there's no way average joe is going to know that S30V is any different than 420J--I mean, 420 IS a higher number, right? That's always better. H1 must be worthless.

People have such a difficult time with locks too. If it's not a lockback, they could spend hours trying to unlock even a liner lock. It needs to have basic lock data too.

Worse yet, maybe 1 out of 10 people that wants to see one of my knives thinks they're broken when they open without being unlocked! They give me this look and say so THIS is supposed to be some high quality knife? The lock doesn't even work when closed!

It's so stupid I just don't know how to respond to it.

But the worst, most absolutely terrible thing is that a father, having been one of these joe averages and buying a sort of decent Gerber, for instance, tells his son that it's a good knife--becauses he's used it for five or ten years and it hasn't let him down. Now the son goes out thinking that Gerber now is somehow related to Gerber back then. This was the case with a good friend of mine who was very convinced that, next to Spyderco, Gerber was the highest quality knife available. Carried a delica for what it's worth.
 
jemelby said:
I've made it my secondary mission to ensure everyone has a sharp knife :)
Uh-oh.

Cut my finger on this )*^#$ knife is toooo sharp :(

-- -- --

I think another part of the problem is that although a lot of people do know what quality is, they just don't see knives as important enough to include in their quality possessions.

When knives really are sharp, it frightens them.
 
This line is good enough to use as a signature:

"Sure it looked mean, but you can only buy so much "mean" for $9.99. "

:D
 
Thank you Jemelby for the best post I have read here since I joined. I want to join all the others in thanking you for your service to our country. Please continue to post here and let us know what knives you are sharpening.

Nolan
 
I copied and pasted jemelby's post into a document to keep, and remind myself of the truth, from time to time.

Thanks for putting into words those wise thoughts, jemelby.

Daniel
 
I agree to some extent but I have a real tough time believeing that an "Average Joe" spends $100 on a Benchmade or Spyderco. I would bet that we buy more than you think from Benchmade.

Seriously, what average joe is going to pay more than $50 on a knife? Not any that I know.

Sure, Case, Gerber, CRKT, make knives for "Average Joe" but I don't know any average joe who would buy a Benchmade. Benchmade is an expensive knife and we are who buys expensive knives. Plus, what average joe buys his knife online? If they do it's probably from Amazon or Cabela's.
 
db said:
Jemelby, I'd be interested in hearing more about the knives your seeing over there.
I'd be glad to list some of the knives in use here. I'll break it out in a seperate post, though. As you might suspect, many of the knives listed will be un-inspiring, and many are down-right cheap :(
 
tim8557 said:
Restaurants are a great example. With the roll up ownership by major corporations, the emphasis is on the "look and feel" of the restaurant; certainly not on the quality of the food. It works, as most people don't know what really good food is all about.

A while back I owned a restaurant and I had a customer return one of the dishes. Sure enough the crew made another order for him, but he returned that too. By now he my attention, so I switched his waiter, called the head chef, and asked him to figure out what we were doing wrong. Within minutes we had people running around all over the kitchen double checking ingredients, texture, color, to make sure that everything was just right. As it happens we were near the end of a work shift, and one of my senior chefs happen to walk in when we were in the middle of this thing.

The guy took one look at the dish, the asked us to point out the customer. When we did he kinda of squinted a bit, and said "I know that guy, he loves his mother's cooking. But, unfortunately, his mother was a lousy cook." He suggested we try it a different way, over/undercooking parts of the order and switching some of the condiments. We tried it again and this time the customer loved it; he loved it so much, that we got use to serving him some 30 times a month; usually coming in for lunch and often returning for dinner with clients, friends, or family.

The moral of the story is that people do know what they want, and while their notion of quality may seem strange to you, they will continue to patronize you as long as you continue to give them what they want and expect.

n2s

BTW, while the Bladeforums is a small part of the entire knife buying community, it and its sister forums represent a significant market for many knife makers (especially custom knife makers in the lower and middle range of the spectrum). We should appreciate that there are makers on these forums that are here to cater to our specific preferences. We may not be able to influence the kinds of knives that sit on the shelves of the local megastore, but we can certain help to influence some of what turns up on the tables at the knife shows.
 
Back
Top