A Favorable Environment for Collectors?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
13,363
In spite of the poor economy, or perhaps to some degree as a result of it, I believe we are currently experiencing a favorable environment for custom knife collectors.

• I believe over recent years we are going through a renaissance of sorts in custom knives as it seems there’s practically no end to the outstanding knives that are being created by a wide range of makers. In other words "the pickings are pretty good".

• The poor economy has created opportunity for collectors to receive good value for dollar spent.

• The reduced attendance at knife shows is creating some excellent buying opportunities for those collectors who are attending. At many shows a collector can casually walk up to the table of a very sought after maker and purchase fine knives that they would have had little or no opportunity to get in the past.

• As a result of the poor economy, some very popular maker's order lists have been reduced giving them a chance to catch up resulting in much shorter wait times for collectors.

• The collector has all sorts of support, educational and social opportunities at his/her disposal. There are a number of very good knife forums and organizations such as the ABS, Guild and especially the CKCA which serve the collector.

• There absolutely outstanding books and periodicals being published which help to educate and induce excitement in the community.

• There seems to be more and more Internet sources where collectors are exposed to knives for sale and custom knives in general for that matter. Again increasing educational and purchasing opportunities.

Do you share my general optimism on this subject?

Please offer your opinions/views on my above points?

As always, I thank you in advance for your interest and participation.
 
Last edited:
Kevin, I agree!

'These times are a changin' (good song;))

We can look at it as negative, or positive. I tend to lean to the positive...
 
I agree with much of it, but I think that "value" is highly subjective. If you compare it to prices from a few years ago and from the persepective of a collector who has been relatively unscathed by the bad economy, sure there's some great "values."

But for many collectors and potential collectors whose standard of living has regressed 3, 5 or more years, there's not much value to be had. Price decreases have a way to go before they reach the level that incomes and the economy in general have sunk to.
 
I hate to say it but the economy is only going to get more depressed.
I think we will be seeing better prices and more selection in the next few years. The 'credit crunch' as we experienced it is only the first wave of the tsunami.
 
BowieBooster said:
I agree with much of it, but I think that "value" is highly subjective. If you compare it to prices from a few years ago and from the persepective of a collector who has been relatively unscathed by the bad economy, sure there's some great "values."

But for many collectors and potential collectors whose standard of living has regressed 3, 5 or more years, there's not much value to be had. Price decreases have a way to go before they reach the level that incomes and the economy in general have sunk to.
Click to expand...

I agree. And the same can be said about the housing market. And just about any form of collectible.

Yes, I think many of us recognize that there are deals to be had anywhere we look, but I think it's far more important to deal with the real issues the economy is facing than try to put a happy face on a head that's been beaten until it's black and blue.

Bob
 
As a collector at heart, I love collecting and wish I could collect more. As a maker, I really don't think most makers who are struggling could care a whole lot about what a XXXX is bringing on the secondary market. A lot of those knives were made years ago and they are great, but the makers who are struggling in this economy are worrying about what they can sell today, in today's market. We can't put on rose colored glasses. We can and should remain optimistic, but we have to look at reality. I'm not talking about people like Ken Onion ,John Young, Jerry Fisk and the Micheal Walkers of the knife world (all great guys). It is definitely a buyers market and most of us who make knives way under 1K are rethinking our strategy to sell knives in this economy. Just like the housing market, if you got in early, you will be ok. If you bought at inflated prices, you are in deep shit.
If you are building houses in today's market, you are building a house that is value priced for today's market.
 
Last edited:
Bobby Branton said:
If you are building houses in today's market, you are building a house that is value priced for today's market.
Click to expand...

It's seems like this thread predicates the "opportunities" it speaks of primarily on the issue of availability - not price. No question but that more great knives are available today because of the economy, than perhaps ever before, either at show or on the internet.

For the well-heeled or unscathed collector, this is, perhaps, an opportunity. However, until sellers find buyers, the market for knives will continue to languish. And that is a function of pricing moreso now than availability. Plenty of available knives around, but until pricing reduces to draw in buyers, or the economy has an upswing and re-creates the buyers who once existed - the knife buying environment won't be "favorable" for most people.

Bob
 
Last edited:
It may be a favorable environment for the buy and hold 'til I die crowd, but for anyone who also pays attention to ROI it's all relative. If you make a really great buy because of depressed market environment, that's good for you.....but what about the value of the stuff you bought last year, a few years before that etc. etc. the total value of your collection has probably slid the same direction as today's market.....equals relative.

You can always rationalize that things will get back to "normal" but in a couple of years we may be saying that September 2010 is the "normal" we dream of getting back to.

So what I believe is that if you make a good buy today and you could sell it easily to a willing buyer tomorrow at a nice profit then you really did slip into a "favorable environment" for a couple of minutes. Otherwise it all remains relative. Once again I stress this does not apply equally to the buy and hold forever guy.

Paul
 
I have had the best year for knife sales in the last 4 years.

Because of the need to recoup $$ due to my Dixon Fighter purchase earlier this year, I had to become more motivated to sell...and have.

A few pieces that I thought would sell quickly have not, but that has been supplanted by oddball stuff that DID sell, and brought in the needed income.

YMMV

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Bobby Branton said:
As a maker, I really don't think most makers who are struggling could care a whole lot about what a XXXX is bringing on the secondary market. A lot of those knives were made years ago and they are great, but the makers who are struggling in this economy are worrying about what they can sell today, in today's market.
Click to expand...

Bobby, not caring what their knives are bringing on the secondary market could be in part why some makers are struggling. Many successful makers follow their secondary market very closely. :confused:.
 
Over the past 25 years that I have been going to shows 1 Fact (yes Fact) has held true:

1) Some makers sell out

2) Some makers do ok

3) Some makers sell nothing.

I have heard most if not all of the excuses as to why makers didn't sell. My favorite to date: I was facing a wall...I pointed out we were all in square room...consequently we were all facing a wall.

The environment has always been favorable for collectors...they are the ones who pay for the knives!

Most of the complaints over the last several years are basically two fold.

1) Some collectors want it and they want it yesterday. As such they don't want to be on a waiting list

2) That the makers who have drawings or are super popular (read...I can buy their knife and flip it for a good profit almost immediately) are unfair...(read I didn't get drawn there for it was unfair).

Look at some of the actions of dealers and makers out there:

A couple of dealers at the USN show got more than there fair share of knives. How can this be if they only get one chance per knife????

They pay people to get into the drawing and then if they win, they pay them an extra $$$$ for them to get the knife. IN one case a well known dealer ran to the makers table to "insure" the shill bought the correct knife.

Another instance a very well known knife dealer was seen standing at the table during a very well known makers table. Writing checks for each of that dealers shill's picked up their knife.

Who is at fault here?

The maker...1 per customer

The dealer...1 per customer

The collector who continues to participate in the drawings for that maker.

Then again we could just go back to the good old days when anyone could walk to up a makers table and buy every knife on the table.

Then people would complain that there other collectors didn't have a chance..

So then we could institute the "drawing" system....and so it goes.

The custom knife market has not felt as much of a negative affect (as some would lead you to believe)of the current Economy. As STeven pointed out he has his best year in the last 4.

I think anyone's comments regarding this (who sell custom knives) would reflect more of their own experience(s).

Business owners are impacted by the economy every hour of every day (good times and bad). It is how the owner reacts, plans and execute changes that have to be implemented to improve your business. Will be the ones who seem least affected.

The more shows you go to...The more Internet sites you search...the more collectors you know...the more opportunities there will be to get great knives at a great price....again another Fact that has held for the last 25 years.

Lastly, if you think shows and knife sales are slow now...you should have seen what happened to custom knives in 1990 when the Japanese market collapsed.

It was brutal!

The custom knife market lost a lot of big buyers and had to "reboot"!

Dollars spent from top to bottom is always in a state of flux...no matter what the economy.

Supply and Demand is always in a fragile juxtaposition.

Trends are in a constant cycle (with niche cycles inside the cycle...more often than not moving at different rates of speed).

Those who innovate will always be in front.

Those who emulate will always lag behind.

No product is recession proof...however actions can be taken prior to, during and after to prepare...lessen the affect and be in a position to move forward when the bottom of the "dip" has been reached.
 
Last edited:
Kohai999 said:
I have had the best year for knife sales in the last 4 years.

Because of the need to recoup $$ due to my Dixon Fighter purchase earlier this year, I had to become more motivated to sell...and have.

A few pieces that I thought would sell quickly have not, but that has been supplanted by oddball stuff that DID sell, and brought in the needed income.

YMMV

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...
I agree Steven.

I sold three knives last month and purchased three.

Of the knives I sold only one was listed for sale (the least expensive one). I got what I wanted for all three.

I feel I got bargains on all three I purchased. Even thought I believe in a purchase and hold philosophy, I'm just about sure I could sell all three at a profit today if I chose.

Three knives from a particular maker hit a dealer site on Tuesday, I was seriously considering purchasing all three as they were extremely nice examples of this maker's knives and I feel he could be one of the next superstars. Well while I was pondering on whether to pull the trigger, I checked back a couple hours latter and all three were sold. The old saying "you snooze you lose" comes to mind.

I believe my and Steven's point is that knives are being purchased at good prices and often being sold at attractive prices for both seller and buyer.

We tend to dwell on the negatives rather than looking for the positives and using these positives to our advantage.

I'm certainly not saying things are rosy, just that there are good things happening if you choose to look for them.

As stated in another thread, the Knife Show dilemma is what's got me worried.
 
I think that the current bad economy is the major cause for the present drop in knife show attendance and sales for at least some makers.

I don't think that it is the only reason though. In my opinion it is because the number of Custom Knife Makers has grown considerably, but the number if Collectors has not kept pace.

We do have more Knife Shows now, more sites on the Internet, but they are sharing a pool of Collectors that has not grown very much. Custom knives are not a necessity, for most people, so when money is tight sales will slow down.

I do think that the current economy is favorable for the collector, if he has the money to purchase the knife he wants. The quality of custom knives has gotten better, Makers' lists are shorter, probably more knives are available at shows. I don't think that all makers have cut their prices, but some have.

I also agree that the value of some knives, but not all have dropped due to this bad economy. I hope that this is temporary. During the past Recessions, custom knives seem to have held their value better than alot of things. Will they now? Who knows?

I think the economy will improve. The question is how quickly.

I will continue to buy custom knives.

Jim Treacy
 
Kevin Jones said:
Bobby, not caring what their knives are bringing on the secondary market could be in part why some makers are struggling. Many successful makers follow their secondary market very closely. :confused:.
Click to expand...
I guess this was the wrong thread to jump into. You are probably talking about more upscale knives and collectors.

I'm talking about knives that were made years ago, most makers are watching the secondary market and and the smart ones are adjusting. The guys who are making everyday using knives under the $500.00 range probably are not watching the secondary market that closely even though they should.
 
Last edited:
HI Bobby,

Makers paying attention to their after market prices (in any big number) is a very recent phenomenon.

I can remember suggesting that very thing to makers 7-8 years ago and most didn't even know what the after market was.

You go back as far as I do. So your breadth of experience is much wider and as such so is your perspective.

Slow down heading to the key board...that was not a crack on anyone in particular. Fact is that those who have been around like Bobby for 25+ years...are going to have a take on the market than someone who has been involved for 5 or 10 or 15 years.

Just imagine the amount of shows Bobby has done in the last 25 years. I remember when Bobby was a collector and I was a fledgling dealer and we competed against each other in the best display competition! We both rode our dinosaurs to the show! :D
 
....that if I start a wordy post chock full of real world experience that goes back over 20 years, and 5 economic cycles and observations, some johnny-come-lately douchebag is going to come in and lob disparaging comments and accuse me of being a "self-proclaimed expert"....so I'll just let Les and Bobby speak their minds, because they are saying good stuff anyway.:)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Bobby Branton said:
I guess this was the wrong thread to jump into. You are probably talking about more upscale knives and collectors.

I'm talking about knives that were made years ago, most makers are watching the secondary market and and the smart ones are adjusting. The guys who are making everyday using knives under the $500.00 range probably are not watching the secondary market that closely even though they should.
Click to expand...

Bobby, don't take my post as a jab at you, as you are probably right that newer makers or those selling in the -$500 range are perhaps not following their secondary market and some of the newer makers of course haven't developed a secondary market.

But for the more established or makers trending toward or hoping to trend towards creating higher end knives, following their secondary markets is one of the best business management tools they have. And it's free except the time invested.
 
No problem, I meant to say that most of the smart upscale makers are now watching the secondary market. I have so much stuff running through my head, it is hard for it to come out right sometimes. I too can get real passionate about this stuff. I've had my share of stuff by Moran, Loveless Ruana Herron, Brend, Maringer etc. In 1985 I bought a drop point hunter from Bob Loveless over the phone for $500.00 and got it in 6 weeks. In 1986, I turned down a Loveless Big bear from a collector for a whopping $2,200.00. I was shaking in my boots as I thought the guy was crazy. $500.00 for a knife back then was not the norm and was a lot of money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top