A few Civilian questions.

P

Perilous Truth

Joined
May 20, 2001
Messages
651
1. Why is there no picture for the Civilian or the Matriarch on Spyderco's website. Is it just my computer acting up, or are they really too dangerous to even look at? :p
2. I am planning on getting a Civillian, and I have a few questions. I am planning on carrying it as a last resort for self defense. Is it legal for citizens to own here in california, or is it for law enforcement only.
3. Whats better, Plain or Seratted :) Any opinions?
Thanks
 
1. The pictures are not on the website for the Civilian or the Matriarch: it's not your computer. I would assume that this is because Spyderco has chosen to never outwardly advertise these models.

2. As far as I know, any folding knife can be carried in California if it doesn't have a switchblade. Auto knives must have blades under 2". I don't see any reason why the civilian would be any different but there are plenty of stupid laws out there.

3. Sal has said that the civilian design works better with serrations. This is a big issue of personal preference: what do you like?
 
Well, I the serrations are super freaking sharp, but i could never sharpen them, then again, this knife is going to cut nothing, so i guess i wont need to sharpen it. I cant understand why they are hiding the pictures of this knife??? I heard some story that some kid down in southern california had a civilian and was playing with it and someone freaked out and said it was a weapon, and yelled at sal to take it down or something. is that true or just rumor?
 
That's a rumor. Sal and company decided early on not to advertise the Civilian and its little sister, the Matriarch. They're for law enforcement use only. Furthermore, every knife company has to be careful about image; there's no good reason for a company like Spyderco to draw attention to two knives designed to cut what these knives are meant to cut.

With that last thought in mind--what, exactly, these knives are meant to cut--I'd say the serrations are what you're looking for.
 
zantezuken,

Check this thread:http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...46099&highlight=matriarch+civilian+restricted

It was the Matriarch that was a concern for Sal, in regards to open public marketing.(note NCBlades comments)

The Civilian was never restricted by Spyderco for open sales. However, Sal gave pause to the Matriarch at first. Now the Mate can be found thru regular outlets.

In CA, niether is illegal per state penal code. No local laws in your area restrict the knives as well. However, airports restrict serrations. AND of course, CSU campus cops enforce thier own knife laws.

The Non legal code aspect of the Civi or Mate will be the individual peace officer, who by his own interpretation make issue of the design.

The reality is there is the codified law and there is what happens on the street. Let's say an edgy LEO field interviews you, if the delica is found, he might buy the fact it's an ordinary tool. If it's the Civi his interest in you may get intense. Maybe He'll detain you until a full background can be called up. It may be the factor in deciding to arrest or simply advise you.

It's a choice between what risks balance out for you.

Does the advantage of the reverse 'S" curve counter balance the increase interest of a LEO during a field interview?

-Seth
 
if i wanted a knife of that design i would get a serrated matriarch, i saw 1 for $44.95 2 days ago, EM me and i will find the site if ya want - i just dont feel the extra cost is justified between the civvy and mat - you are talking 3X the price for about 1/4" or so of blade, and G10 handles vs zytel - mat works fine for me - i dont think anyone would have probs w/LEO's if the knife is the only thing in question, as long as it meets legal criteria for your area, now throw in some coke, etc and things could change though - most LEO's dont care what law abiding citizens carry to protect themselves as long as they follow length restrictions, etc - they dont care what a knife 'looks' like - that has been my experience anyway


sifu
 
ill be recieving the civ in a trade anyway, so price doenst really matter, thanks though, are there any books or videos or sites on the internet with techniquest on the civ?
 
zantetsucken,
Check out combat technologies.James Keating has a video designed for the civilian,and if you are serious about carrying a knife with this design,make a dummy trainer,and definetly get this video
 
carry what feels comfortable for you, but i don't think a civ lends to comfort.

i think the civi is just too bulky for practical carry. it has one purpose and it does that very well. i dunno how easy it would be passing it back and forth at an airport security stop, or what cops may say if you get pulled over (you should announce blades if they ask if you have any weapons). don't get me wrong, it's a great blade. it's got "wrong end to be on" stamped on the very tip. technique is vastly different from straight blades though, and you have to be pretty good to handle on effectively without damaging the knife itself. there's a lot of cons in getting one for personal d.
we had a thread on this a short while back...
if you want a more rounded carry, you could look at the mil and starmate. sturdier tips, thick blades, excellent cutting surfaces.
friend of mine has a civ. he carried it for a few weeks and went back to his mil.

toast
 
Originally posted by SIFU1A
most LEO's dont care what law abiding citizens carry to protect themselves as long as they follow length restrictions, etc - they dont care what a knife 'looks' like - that has been my experience anyway


sifu
Click to expand...

Sifu,

In Texas, most LEO's likely have a good deal of commom sense and a sense of fairness; however, here in Kali, fairness is increasingly rare among LEOs.

Zante is in Fresno. Forumite Solid_Soldier was arrested and falsely charged while on Campus of Fresno State. His legal (by CA college campus code) Buck Strider was was used as the basis for the false charge. THe charges were dismissed after a good lawyer was retained for nearly $3000.

The Cops I've met in Fresno, tend to believe that civilians do not have a right to carry self-defense devices such as guns or knives. (unless your a friend of Mayor Bubba) Alan Autry. I know one Cop who's growing knife collection is off street confiscation.

The same Cop that arrested Solid_Soldier has been embrassed. knowing Cops as I do; My bet is that he's griped to his buddies. Now... Every young College aged guy carry a 'Mean Knife' will get special treatment from the badges lookin' to score one back.

My advice to Zante was very geo-centric to our area. This is The Peoples Repubic of Kalifornia, we have laws banning plastic knives.

Hell, in Texas, the Cops have enough sense to carry .357 Sigs.

-Seth
 
More on the California scene: The L.A. County District Attorney's office has an official policy that all persons carrying a weapon will be arrested. Offensive or defensive doesn't matter. Thus, you can't carry a legal knife in L.A. County if you're carrying it "for protection."

Enforcement of this policy varies, and many LEOs are not aware of it, but the best approach is not to have a knife as a weapon, only as something used for a legitimate recreational, occupational, or religious activity.

CORRECTION: I spoke with a friend who's a D.A. today. He clarified the above, saying that the D.A.'s office doesn't define who's arrested, just who's charged (which makes more sense). However, they are prone to charge a weapons charge if such a charge can be found from the facts in the arrest report.

Johnny
 
man i'm sorry, i should have thought before writing - my comments are for the US, not the peoples republik of kalifornia, that place is a nut house - any and everything happens there, ya cant compare PRK w/the rest of the country ....

one of my best friends lived in orange, then big bear, and, while big bear was beutifull, he is a gun collector, and has since moved to alaska, about 4 years ago - he just couldnt handle it any longer in kali, and has told me he will never set foot in that state again -

anyway i stand corrected lol


sifu
 
Know the laws of your state well regarding knives. Many times as well as state laws there are county and city ordinances, that carry lesser penalties but are there none the less. Also when conferring with law enforcement officials I would never refer to knife as a weapon. If asked if I have any weapons, I would say no, but I do have a knife I carry as a tool. I would Never ever say I carried it for self defense. Even with the Civi, which would be hard to do. Tell them its really good at rope and mushroom harvests. In too many states a knife for a tool is OK, a knife for defense makes it a weapon subject to all kinds of different laws. We have no blade length law in Wisconsin (some cities do though), but the smallest knife if carried for self defense is considered a weapon and cant be concealed or carried in any way. In fact under our state law, anything carried as a weapon becomes a weapon under the law. And in Wisconsin its illegal to carry a weapon open or concealed. So even carrying a knife in a sheath on your belt as a defensive weapon would be illegal. The only way they can hang you is by your intent, and in questioning people hang themselves. Hence never utter the words, I carry it for self protection. Even if where you carry for self defense it is perfectly legal, I would always beg off and go the utility route, regardless of if its a delica or Civi or a Sifu. By the way here guns are defined as weapons but have their own special set of rules that are different from all other weapons. Long story short, Weapon=Bad, Tool=Good, why start off on the wrong foot. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
 
oh i agree, i go sailing alot, and the civilian is good for cutting rope with the curved blade. I just forgot to take it off officer.
 
I own 2 Grey Matriarch's and 1 G10 Civilian, the Civilian in my opinion has abit more scare value due to that extra long curve.
Both are razor sharp and as far as the serations go, well for its purpose I think its bloody stupid to buy a plain edge, its not for peeling your oranges, its for saving your life, its meant to slash clothing and flesh, not wood and cardboard.
The serations are a MUST for slashing through clothing, especially if your attacker was wearing a thick leather jacket, dnot even compramise on getting the new plainedge version, not worth it.

I read a comment about sharpening them, if you have a 204 sharpmanker, its the most basic thing to sharpen.
Give it 20 strokes out the box and it gets even more razor than new, which is bloody scary, just use the white ceramic stones on the corners (the <|).

If you have a choice of the Civ or the Mat, well hard choice, Id prollie go for the Civ even tho I like the Mat more.
Matriarch is tip-up carry, which is nice for drawing from your pocket, its FRN which makes it nice and light and its more compact.
Yet as I said, if I attacked some1 and he drew a Civie or a Mat, the Civ would make me think 3 times where the Mat would make me think twice.

Good luck on ya choice, they beutifully crafted blades, nice in a ugly way *Evil Grin*

seeya

MaNcEr
 
It should be pretty much SOP for knives to be officially carried as "tools" anywhere in the world by now.

No, it ain't right, but the fact is there is a "war on self-defense" going on, with the politicriminals harnessing the fear of the sheeple masses, and the media doing (and having done) the bulk of the work in fear indoctrination.

That's why I always try and fight that fear indoctrination whenever possible, whether it is placing my Sifu on the bagel table at the health club or just talking about my latest knife purchase with someone.

My daily carry is usually my BF SE D2 Sifu in the right pocket (for those larger bagels) and my Native (or a Delica) in my left pocket for left handed use (in case I hurt my right hand or arm before I get the bagel cut). I am a "knife knut" and I like to share my collection with others in the appropriate places, which is another reason (besides chores) I carry such knives. The Sifu is clearly marked "Special Edition 47/75" and is thus a collectable.

I NEVER CARRY A KNIFE FOR SELF-DEFENSE, and I have said this and written it down in so many places that Ohio politicriminals and their minions would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. If ever arrested, I plan to fight the charge, and I plan to win.

This could change, if ever I thought I could successfully challenge Ohio's pro-criminal, anti-self-defense laws by insisting that EVERYTHING I carry is for use as a weapon! :)

Karl the uppity citizen
 
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