A few questions from a newbie

N

NeoWolf

Joined
Apr 27, 2015
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Hello there. I am looking for some help and this looked like a good place to start.

I recently came in to possession of a couple of knives.....

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A couple of old Ka-Bar knives.

As you can see they are in poor condition and I would like to breath new life back into them.

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So this is the deal. One belongs to my father, it was his uncle's knife. The other was my grandfather on my mothers side. I really would like restore these I am just unsure how the best way to do it is. I also am restricted by a budget. So any help would be greatly appreciated. The one that was my fathers I would like to restore and return to him. Also neither knife has a sheath so I am going to have to make one......which I have never done..,...LOL!!

Thanks in advance for any help.


It appears my photos did not take so here is where I have an album set up http://imgur.com/a/12mKa?gallery
 
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The small Kabar is a WW2 USN MK1 utility knife. It appears to still be "original" in its parts.

The large Kabar is a WW2 USN MK2 fighting/utility knife and is in "theater mod" condition, meaning that the knife was modified "in the field", most likely after the pommel broke off after. Whether that was during or after the war would have to be a story from your dad. :D

The original pommel was most likely a 3/8" thick, round, steel pommel that was peened on, rather than pinned. My assumption is based on the stamps on the ricassos and statistics. Guard stamped thick pommel and blade stamped thin (1/4") pommel versions were made, but in relatively small quantities and are seldom seen.

The first fix would be to stop the active red rust. That would be with 0000 steel wool, 3-in-1 oil (or equivalent) and elbow grease. Without intervention, the rust will continue to erode the blades.

The next fixes would depend on how you want to bring them back up to snuff. To return them back to near original is possible - Kabar (go to kabar.com for the 800 number to cs) sells leather disk replacement sets. I believe they also sell replacement pommels. These replacement pommels would be NOT period correct as they would be thick ones drilled for pinning and not stamped for peening. No original thick pommel was pinned.

I don't know if Kabar sells MK1 specific kits, but the leather disks of the MK2 kit could be used. They would just need to be sanded down more to the original version's handle diameter. Your MK1 pommel is probably peened on (no pommel end pic) and could be reused with judicious care in removing.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
... and elbow grease.
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Lots of elbow grease. ;)

Agree with zzyzzogeton, not a big $ issue, just manual labor. You'll never get rid of the pitting but you should be able to get a nice stain finish. You could even give it a vinegar bath to force a dark patina to get closer to the original look.

Several vids on YT on rust removal and leather handle replacement.

After you finish with a 00/000/0000 steel wool progression, post some more pics for additional recommendations.
 
These two fellas are way more experienced than I. I will offer my opinion, there's no disks missing, I'd start with a leather conditioner then go from there. Prob need several applications letting them set in over night but don't glob anything on, just rub it in real good. Do this for several days and see how it progresses. I use kiwi conditioning oil and have had no issues although I haven't used it on anything old but I can't see how that would matter. Maybe look for a conditioning lotion like you'd put on a leather jacket, its a bit more "wet" and may migrate in better. I like the aged look esp on vintage blades. Go for a good cleanup and elbow grease and see what you think before putting money into parts and such. Before you go busting things apart and modifying them, you may find you're quite satisfied leaving them somewhat original. As for sheaths, you can buy new kabar sheaths. Do a search for ka-bar 7 inch leather sheath and 5 1/4 inch leather sheath. These should fit. The 5 1/4 may need a bit of stretching for the strap but it'll fit the mk2
 
NC- how well one of the conditioning products (kiwi, snoseal, obenaufs, etc) work is highly dependent on the condition of the leather disks. If it is really, really old, brittle and dry, the disks can crack out and break off as you try to rub the stuff in. I made a couple of mistakes like that. It doesn't always work, but on really dry stuff, I will "gob" it on a little thick and let it sit there for a few days and try to let it soak up like old dry wood rather than rub it trying to "force" it in. Still doesn't work all that well on old, old, old stuff.
 
I hear ya, speaking from experience is better than my advice lol. I read somewhere that coating it on thick doesn't work as well because it seals it and you want that exposure at the surface, let it soak in, then reapply. I think also it was talking about in case theres any adverse effects, your not stuck with slimy gooped up leather, also I think this was concerning shoes lol. Once again, information I read, not experienced. If your careful and rub it in but not being forceful and grinding in prob doesn't matter if its too far gone. it would be up to the user to determine the condition before hand. I usually just rub it in with a rag until its shiny and all but gone, I don't coat my hands with it and squeeze the living daylights out of it haha. At most a finger behind the rag doing the rubbing, kinda wrapped in the rag.
 
Thanks for the responses! I am getting excited about this. I love the look and feel of these knives.

My plans so far are to focus on the Mk2. The pommel (or butt not sure of proper term) is not original and is held on with a pin of some kind.. So I want to remove that so I can see what condition the tang is in. I fear that the rust is under there too, though I am not sure. I would love to put a proper bottom on it but not sure that I will. And if I have trouble with the washers I can always rethink too. The guard at the blade is loose and so are the first couple of washers but I think that reconditioning may help to tighten that up.

I have seen a few references to using a leather conditioner and like the idea, one even mentioned actually soaking it (just the handle) and leaving it for a bit to allow the leather to soak up the oil.

I have seen several suggestions for rust removal.....it almost funny. Water and Baking soda.....lime juice and baking soda......diet coke.....pickle juice......even a bath of citric acid powder and water! (Got some tools I think that I will try these on!) Though I think I will go with 3 in 1 oil and fine steel wool. Maybe some wet/dry fine grit paper if needed. I dont want to put scratches or swirls in the blade. Thinking about some polishing compound. I am torn between the "patinaed" type of look or trying to shine it back up. It have been suggested to leave it more aged for the money value but I am not concerned about that value. These are not going anywhere!

I will take pics as I progress into this and let you guys see what I find and where I go.
 
The originals (both MK1/2s) had a parkerized finish, so a heavy patina would be closer to period.
 
NeoWolf said:
I dont want to put scratches or swirls in the blade.
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meh, as long as it doesn't get gouged, any scratches or swirls can be sanded/buffed out.


I am torn between the "patinaed" type of look or trying to shine it back up.
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Easy enough to bounce between the two.


It have been suggested to leave it more aged for the money value ...
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No real 'money value' here anyway. Too much damage. 'Like new' in 'original' condition is where the 'money' is. As you said, the real 'value' here is sentimental.


I will take pics as I progress into this and let you guys see what I find and where I go.
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Looking forward to it!
 
You could also apply "renaisance wax" to the blade and handle after restoration. That's the stuff they use in museums to preserve valuable items. I have a jar at home and it seals the handle and blade. Great stuff. Don't use power tools in your restoration process. It will destroy any value the knives might have.
 
Yeah I am getting kinda stoked about this too. Started cleaning the blades last night. Used a worn 320 grit sanding sponge and some machine oil. I was pleased with the results. Got some steel wool to continue with them. There is some pitting in the metal. I was thinking of some very fine wet/dry to smooth the spots....not necessarily remove it just soften the edges. I am going to work on it this weekend and try to put up some pics to show my progress.

Thanks for all the responses.....been a great help!

PS
Found some interesting things about how to ID the different variations of WW2 era Ka-Bars....

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/for...e-in-need-of-vintage-ka-bar-advice/?p=1476748
 
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Well here is an update.....have spent several hours working on these...
This is where I started

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And here is where I am at.....

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Just a bit of difference I think. Still have some work to do but its encouraging to see the progress. I am not much of one for tedious task but this has not been too bad.
And I was surprised how sharp the big one is! Did some feather sticking while messing around with my boys and it did awesome.....have not even touched a stone yet!

I am going to talk to a leather "expert" this week and let him see the handles to get some ideas on cleaning and restoring them and maybe see what I can do about some sheaths....

More to come soon I hope.
 
When I get an old project knife with leather washers, I use saddle soap to clean the handle once a day for a week. Then I let it sit for a week to dry out, I will then put the knife in a plastic freezer bag and pour in a whole bottle of neats foot and let it soak for a week. I have had good luck saving leather handles using this treatment.
 
Battleship said:
When I get an old project knife with leather washers, I use saddle soap to clean the handle once a day for a week. Then I let it sit for a week to dry out, I will then put the knife in a plastic freezer bag and pour in a whole bottle of neats foot and let it soak for a week. I have had good luck saving leather handles using this treatment.
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Cool. Thanks for the ideas. I have read about the neats foot oil. Had not thought about saddle soap....duh! Thanks
 
NeoWolf said:
And here is where I am at.....
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Definitely better. :thumbup:

Too much pitting to make a full restoration worth the 'days' of hand sanding worth it. Might want to try some 220grit to put a bit of satin finish around the pitting.
I'd concentrate on cleaning up the edge itself and the leather.
 
I think you better get some more opinions on what to do with that leather before you try the suggestion above. I've only seen leather ruined by what was suggested. The leather you have is 70 years old now and may not be salvageable in any case. The methods used to try and preserve leather vary a bit and need to be applied in a case by case basis. Better to have your "leather expert" look at the knives first hand. I've only seen one kind of result from soaking any leather for extended periods of time in (Neatsfoot oil). The leather becomes spongy and will leach out oil for months or even years. The leather looses it's structural strength and will rip much more easily. On old leather I've seen it actually break apart.
I have used Neatsfoot oil, very sparingly, to keep leather from drying out when it's being dyed and other processes that tend to dry it out. IMHO, I prefer to use Lanolin for this sort of thing these days.
 
Oh I am going to have someone actually look at them. I agree that the age is a big issue here. I want to be careful with them and do it right. If it turns out that replacing them is the way to go then so be it. But if I can clean and restore them I think that would be the better option. I don't wish to offend anyone here! But I look at all the responses and other threads that I have seen as suggestion and I appreciate them all. But in the end I have to choose the route to go here. I am hoping to fix and restore at least the Mk1 and return it to my father. But I have not told him that. So the more original I can keep it the better. The Mk2 with the Mod to the butt is another story. The condition of those appear to be worse. But that all being said I still want someone knowledgeable with leather to look before I do anything. AND I am thinking that I could get leather supplies to make a sheath for them from him. Eventually I might try to do something with kydex but to restore them I need to leather sheaths I think.

That being said I will keep everyone up to date and post more pics as I proceed.
 
TravisH said:
Definitely better. :thumbup:

Too much pitting to make a full restoration worth the 'days' of hand sanding worth it. Might want to try some 220grit to put a bit of satin finish around the pitting.
I'd concentrate on cleaning up the edge itself and the leather.
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Yeah I did drop to actually a 150 grit which really softened the pitting up. I was going to see the leather guru here locally, but got laid up with spasms in my back so I am behind now...
 
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