a good first sword to study?

Will52100

Will52100

Joined
Dec 4, 2001
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What would be a good sword to study for a knifemaker? I'm interested in learning to make swords. Don't think I'd make a lot of them, but want to understand the ballance, don't realy care about a repo's edge holding or fit and finish, just that it is sized rite and has a proper ballance and that I can learn from before attempting a real sword. I've got a falchon in the works, but haven't went past cleaning up the forging.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
 
Well, if a cheap price along with a more or less accurate assembly is what you want, get a $50 Chinese wakizashi or katana off ebay. The steel will be junk, and you must promise never to try and cut with it...but you can take it apart to get some idea of how a katana is made.

When ready to start making your first wakizashi ( simpler than starting on a katana), there are literally hundreds of tutorials and DVD's to guide you along. Most are about making a katana, but a wakizashi is basically a short katana - note to the purists: that is an oversimplification, please don't start a war over semantics:D. Your first wak/katana may not make the smiths in Japan pack their bags and head for retirement, but it will probably make you proud. Basic construction of a Japanese sword is straight forward and simple. The finer attributes ,like hamon and bo-hi, can be saved for later projects. Use 1080/1084, and forge in the sori. Quench in fast oil. The results will please you.

email me if you want some more info.
 
Depends on what sort of sword you'd want! Personally I'd say if you want to get a good idea of balance and handling of European swords, check out the pieces designed by Michael "Tinker" Pierce being put out by Hanwei. Unornamented, but the performance characteristics are golden!
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Depends on what sort of sword you'd want!
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Seconded. If it's katana, I don't think that studying cheap chinese junkers in order to learn how to make proper katana is the way to go personally.... unless of course you want to make something like the cheap chinese junkers. Instead I think you need to look at either well made contemporary swords (although you are then subject to making the same mistakes or advances that whoever that maker is is prone to) or even better would be extant historical originals. Both may be in short supply in your area.

If it's Western Swords, Thai, Indian or whatever the advice is pretty much the same.

I'm a big fan of going to the source if at all possible.
 
Many museums will allow you to examine items from their collections if you simply call to schedule a private appointment with a curator of the department. If there are any with arms and armor near you it may be worth a try. Most museums have collections far larger than what they have displayed at any one time.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Many museums will allow you to examine items from their collections if you simply call to schedule a private appointment with a curator of the department. If there are any with arms and armor near you it may be worth a try. Most museums have collections far larger than what they have displayed at any one time.
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Very good advice there as well. Unfortunately here in the South such museums are in short supply (I think our OP is in Mississippi) but this may be that excuse he was needing to take a trip to New York, or San Fran or Toronto (ROM is awesome) or whereever.

Two of the top sword smiths in the world (in my opinion of course) are European makers with access to European museums. Two of the top U.S. sword smiths make regular pilgrimages to Europe to study in European Museums. The same applies to the katana guys. Those that are making the best katana, fittings, saya etc. all make regular trips to Japan.
 
Thanks guys, I've got a couple junk katanas bought years ago before starting to make knives. Down south it's hard to find a museum. I do work overseas though, but haven't had time to find one, working in singapor rite now.

I'm interested in the european swords rite now, got a falchon, or at least my version of one, in the works. I've done a good bit of reading, but reading won't tell my hand about ballance and feel.

Thanks for the suggestions, I did learn first hand that the differance between a 12 bowie and a 26" sword is a lot more than 14"s:D
 
Here's a good link of museums in Mississippi. I haven't looked through the list to see if any good candidates are there, but at least it's a starting place!
 
Will52100 said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I did learn first hand that the differance between a 12 bowie and a 26" sword is a lot more than 14"s:D
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:thumbup: If you recognize that you are already headed in the right direction! Unfortunately I don't personally believe that there's any real substitute for handling the original item, not if you are serious about getting it right.
 
That, unforunatly I agree on.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

A good example is a knife maker who's knives I got to handle several years ago. They were a bit on the rough side, satin finished, brass gaurds, rough forging, ect. The longest was around 16" blade. A purveyer was complaining about the fit and finish. They did look a little rough, but after picking one up, it was a differant story, they all came alive in my hand, perfectly ballanced, light as a feather and naturaly pointing like a living thing. There's no dought in my mind that they would out perform most any highly finished knife in pure working. There is a lot more to a knife (or sword) than a high polish.

Thanks for all the suggestions,

Will
 
If I was you I would purchase a finished bare blade from albion; either heat treated or not. Reasonably priced especially when not heat treated.
It would give you a good idea of how a blade should be balanced through a combination of taper and distal taper and hilting it would be good practice.
 
Likewise chat with some folks like John Lundemo, Angus Trim, Michael "Tinker" Pierce, or Christian Fletcher. They can all give you some pointers. Great folks who are some of the best in the field.
 
Thanks guys, I think I'm going to get a finished blade, and study it. I can make the hardware no problem. Should give me some idea of the proper ballance.
 
I got to document some historical swords from the Glenbow museum in Calgary.
Some rapiers, a couple shiavona, and some great swords from the 1600's(around 6 ft long overall) a one hander from the 13 cent. To my surprise
the balance point on all was 4-6" in front of the guard. overall weights varied from 2 lbs to 8-10 lbs.
 
Will52100 said:
Thanks guys, I think I'm going to get a finished blade, and study it. I can make the hardware no problem. Should give me some idea of the proper ballance.
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For reference, you can buy bare blades from Angus Trim. The man knows how to make a finely tuned sword, so it would be great for study purposes.
 
Will52100 said:
Thanks guys, I think I'm going to get a finished blade, and study it. I can make the hardware no problem. Should give me some idea of the proper ballance.
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Just make sure you read about how pommels change the rotational behavior of swords, in that article I linked above. Once you get close to the proper pommel weight, adding more weight may only move the center of mass a tiny amount, yet the forward pivot point (corresponding to the crossguard) may move dramatically.
 
Way too good to be true. Check the seller's location. Also the "CAN CHOP TREE" in the item title is a bit of a giveaway.
 
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