A heavy duty Opinel type of lock?

[jac_solar]

Has anyone made a heavy duty Opinel type of lock, you know, the lock type that sits on the front of the folder-frame and is rotated around? Like, a bearing assisted locking ring made out of thick steel that rides on a track, and is locked into place in both open and closed position and is opened with a button or something similar. Made on a full-steel frame, that seems like it'd make one extremely strong folder.

 

[pinnah]

define strong.

In terms of dealing with strong opening or lateral forces, the humble Opinel is plenty strong already.

In terms of dealing with strong closing forces, the Opinel is not strong at all. Best to avoid situations that create strong closing forces, imo.

Cold Steel used to make a lock ring knife, but I don't know that it was any stronger.

 

[jac_solar]

define strong.

In terms of dealing with strong opening or lateral forces, the humble Opinel is plenty strong already.

In terms of dealing with strong closing forces, the Opinel is not strong at all. Best to avoid situations that create strong closing forces, imo.

Cold Steel used to make a lock ring knife, but I don't know that it was any stronger.

I meant the type of lock I was describing. A thick steel ring that locks the blade in place, and is supported by a steel frame, should be very strong.

 

[The Whip]

To my knowledge, no one's done what you're describing. As pinnah mentioned, Cold Steel made its version of the ring lock, as did Kershaw, but both used polymer frames.

I, too, have long thought that an improved rendition of the ring lock (particularly the bearing race and open/closed locking positions that you suggest) would make for a very smooth, strong locking system indeed. I hope that someone explores it.

-Steve

 

[goodeyesniper]

You should get an opinel and use it for your hard use tasks, I think you might be surprised how tough it is. Unless you just really want something that "seems" tougher in your mind

 

[8steve88]

The problem with using a bearing and track is always going to be that the bearing needs to be a "C" shape not an "O" shape to allow the blade to pass through. The C"" shape will always be weaker unless you make it considerably larger or out of high spec materials. One of the beauties of the Opinel is that the utility vs weight vs cost is so good. Start toughening things up and you begin to get into cost increases etc. The Virobloc locking system is great, strong enough for what it is meant to be, a light utility knife.

 

[jac_solar]

The problem with using a bearing and track is always going to be that the bearing needs to be a "C" shape not an "O" shape to allow the blade to pass through. The C"" shape will always be weaker unless you make it considerably larger or out of high spec materials. One of the beauties of the Opinel is that the utility vs weight vs cost is so good. Start toughening things up and you begin to get into cost increases etc. The Virobloc locking system is great, strong enough for what it is meant to be, a light utility knife.

What I imagined is, a .18" thick hardened steel ring that rides on 2 tracks.

The bearings would be inside a construction like this, inside the steel ring:

And that would ride on these, which would be a part of the steel frame:

At the open and closed position, it'd hit a lever of sorts that locks it into place, and the lever would be opened by a button. Obviously, this would probably cost a bit, but it'd be interesting to see.

 

[goodeyesniper]

That's a good way to make a convoluted $150 opinel which might be able to handle everything the $10 opinel could.

 

[8steve88]

After staring at your explanation for a couple of minutes I completely got what you meant, the confusing part was when you referred to a "ring", it would have to be a C section like the Virobloc.
It would be a stronger lock that could support a much heavier blade.
Thing is as goodeyesniper says it would be an expensive solution to a problem that isn't there. I'd love to see one made but it would be down to an enthusiast like yourself to create one.

 

[jac_solar]

After staring at your explanation for a couple of minutes I completely got what you meant, the confusing part was when you referred to a "ring", it would have to be a C section like the Virobloc.
It would be a stronger lock that could support a much heavier blade.
Thing is as goodeyesniper says it would be an expensive solution to a problem that isn't there. I'd love to see one made but it would be down to an enthusiast like yourself to create one.

Yeah I just meant it'd be shaped like a ring or circle. I'm not saying it's a solution to anything, or that it should replace the Opinel; I just used the lock as a reference, because I think it'd be cool to see a more modern or engineered Opinel lock on a modern like folder. With guide rails and bearings it should also be smoother.

 

[pinnah]

The problem with using a bearing and track is always going to be that the bearing needs to be a "C" shape not an "O" shape to allow the blade to pass through. The C"" shape will always be weaker unless you make it considerably larger or out of high spec materials. One of the beauties of the Opinel is that the utility vs weight vs cost is so good. Start toughening things up and you begin to get into cost increases etc. The Virobloc locking system is great, strong enough for what it is meant to be, a light utility knife.

Again, the question is what engineering problem are we envisioning fixing by making it stronger in someway.

My experience is that the joint and lock are plenty strong in terms of dealing with strong cutting (opening) forces and strong lateral forces. It's almost impossible to use the knife so hard as to generate lateral or vertical play (until the back of the blade tang actually wears down too much).

If the issue is to make the lock strong enough to resist strong closing forces... well... that's entirely wide open. The Vibroloc won't withstand much closing pressure at all. It's better than a strong slip joint, but not by much really. If that's the problem that jac_solar is trying to fix than we can focus on that.

Personally, I don't rely on the Vibroloc to prevent closing and wouldn't want to give up any of the Opinel's ability to function when heavily fouled with dirt and crud. As it is, the Opinel lock ring is sort of like the AK-47. Crudely and cheaply made with no reliance on fine tolerances and able to work when fouled with muck.

To solve jac's problem of closing force (if that's what he's going after), I think a simple 'U' shaped track top and bottom and a thicker lock ring are all that's needed. The ring fails when it deforms enough to jump out of position like a busted spring. Stop that from happening and your done.

 

[jac_solar]

Again, the question is what engineering problem are we envisioning fixing by making it stronger in someway.

My experience is that the joint and lock are plenty strong in terms of dealing with strong cutting (opening) forces and strong lateral forces. It's almost impossible to use the knife so hard as to generate lateral or vertical play (until the back of the blade tang actually wears down too much).

If the issue is to make the lock strong enough to resist strong closing forces... well... that's entirely wide open. The Vibroloc won't withstand much closing pressure at all. It's better than a strong slip joint, but not by much really. If that's the problem that jac_solar is trying to fix than we can focus on that.

Personally, I don't rely on the Vibroloc to prevent closing and wouldn't want to give up any of the Opinel's ability to function when heavily fouled with dirt and crud. As it is, the Opinel lock ring is sort of like the AK-47. Crudely and cheaply made with no reliance on fine tolerances and able to work when fouled with muck.

To solve jac's problem of closing force (if that's what he's going after), I think a simple 'U' shaped track top and bottom and a thicker lock ring are all that's needed. The ring fails when it deforms enough to jump out of position like a busted spring. Stop that from happening and your done.

I don't think it's a solution to anything; Axis, Triad locks etc. locks are more than strong enough for a tough folder. I just thought a more "modern", or engineered, "Vibroloc" would be interesting. A thicker piece of steel (That doesn't flex.) on a dual railing of sorts, along with a locking system to hold it in place (Ie, it locks into place in both open and closed, and a button unlocks it.) might also work.

 

[davek14]

I'm trying to envision this and it seems that it would have a really large outer diameter on the whole assembly.