A historical fighting knife that's NOT a bowie.

[LX_Emergency]

Some months back I and a few other Dutch knifemakers got in touch with someone over here who's writing a book on the Dutch art of "Maulcutting" (The actual term is Bekkensnijden, which means to cut someone's beak/maul/face/big mouth).

He was asking us things about whether there were still makers producing such knives.

Well, me personally I'd never heard of this so I was intrigued. Especially since I live in a smaller city that's known throughout the country as a place where "Messentrekkers" (people who pull out a knife) live since the 1800's.

After a while it was suggested that those interested would make a "Bekkensnijder" knife for the upcoming Dutch Knife Exhibition.

Four of us participated in this endevour. One of us might want to show the piece he did himself so I'll not show that....also...he's an amazing maker and my work pales by comparison so that's another reason to NOT show his piece here. (Although if he posts a picture of it in this thread himself then I won't mind.)

For me I decided to go the historical route. The writer (Jerome Blanes) put together a small selection of text and pictures on what a Bekkensnijder was like historically. And I decided to go for a 17th/18th style version. Based on this text:

17th century:
Het was pas in het vroege begin van de 17de eeuw dat kleinere messen werden gedragen. Dit had te maken met ontwapening in de steden die alsmaar groeiden. Het had ook te maken met werk en met het populairder worden van eten met een mes. Rijkere mensen hadden soms ook een vork en begonnen met het cadeau doen van mes en vork setjes aan hun vrienden en familie.
Zoals jullie wel weten waren veel van de toen gebruikte technieken en ontwerpen al bekend in de middeleeuwen. Europeanen waren heel erg begaafd in het maken van messen en wapens.
Begin 17de eeuw waren messen zowel met angel of staart [stick tang] als platte angel/plaat angel [full tang] met klink-nagels [rivets]. Messen werden voornamelijk in lederen foedralen bewaard maar hout en metalen foedralen bestonden ook. Ze werden voornamelijk in de broekzak gedragen.
In de 17de eeuw kwamen de begrippen Hanenveer, het benoemen van de Bekkesnijder-kampioen als Voorvechter en het belonen van kampioenen met messen van zilver of met zilver-beslag.

18de eeuw:
Er veranderd niet veel in vergelijking met de 17de eeuwse messen. Wel komt er een duidelijker verschil tussen de werkmessen en drachtmessen [angel of staart messen] en de eetmessen en duurdere kwaliteitsmessen [platte angel, plaat angel]. De enorme opkomst van het vouwmes in de 18de eeuw heeft wel een grote invloed op het werk van hechtenmakers en foedraalmakers.

Now I know you all read Dutch just fine. But for those few who don't translated it says (this just off the top of my head)

It was not untill the early 17th century that smaller knives were being carried. This because of the disarming of the cities that were growing rapidly by then. There was also a connection with the growing popularity of eating with knives and forks. The richer portion of the population sometimes had a fork and started gifting them to friends and families.
As you well know many of the then used techniques and designs were already well known throughout the dark ages. Europeans were very gifted at producing knives and weapons.
Early 17th century both stick tang and full tang with rivets were produced. Knives were mostly carried in leather sheaths, but wooden and metal sheaths were not uncommon. They were mostly carried in pants pockets.
In the 17th century terms like RoosterFeather started coming up, which was naming the Bekkensnijder-Champion a formal fighter or rewarding them with silver knives or knives with silverwork on them.

18de eeuw:
Not much changes in comparison to the 17th century knives. However a clear difference between work or carry knives (stick tang) and eating knives and those of a higher quality starts to become apparant. The massive growth in popularity of the folding knife in the 18th century also has a large impact on the work of sheathmakers.

And I focused on the sentences in BOLD.

Add to that this image of 16th, 17th and 18th stick tang knives

And this 18th century image of one of the (back then) most well known fighters called Jacob van der Sluys

And I knew more or less what I was aiming for.

Considering the style I decided on a carbon steel (C100 steel) which I would darken with acid to give it a well used look.
A copper collar, and a tapered handle with some decorated carving to complete it.
I went with Wengé wood (because I wanted to use a dark wood and I had this in stock + it was too short notice to order something else)
And the pocket sheath would have to be a natural leather colour (because dying leather is for rich folk )
The word on one side says "STaVaST" (which means stand solid or stand fast, which was the opening words for the knife fighting game. (yes...it was simply a bloodsport which would go on untill blood from the head was drawn. The games were rarely lethal from what I understand) so similar to "En Garde" in french)
The other side is simply my name.

And after pushing myself just enough. Here's what I came up with (thank you for your patience in reading this epistle.)

If you read this far, congratulations and thanks for reading.

I'll see if I can shoot a quick video of it this evening and I'll add that to the thread.

 

[Lycosa]

I like that single tang pin and the handle, too.
rolf

 

[the possum]

Bernard Levine has a collection of images (from still life paintings) of 17th century Dutch knives on his website. Some have really detailed handles, and there's even a scabbard with a "lid" to cover the handle.
http://www.knife-expert.com/still.htm

Now I know you all read Dutch just fine.

Some of the words are close enough to German that I can figure them out, if I try to read it aloud and go by the sound instead of the spelling.

 

[LX_Emergency]

And here's the video:

[video=youtube;Flqnms-ViD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flqnms-ViD8&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[HARDBALL]

Hi LX,

Older thread I know but, NICE knife! I am a big fan of this Dutch style knife. Enclosed are pictures of a "Dutch Flamand" Knife made by my friend Ken Hamilton here in Maine.
I own a similar looking (made by Ken Hamilton) Dutch Flamand knife which has the more common "Box Wood" handle (as opposed to the beautiful Moose Antler Handle shown in picture).
Historical examples of the Dutch Flamand knives (as I understand) were once "trade" items with the Native Indians here in Maine. I nearly had to beg Ken to make me a Dutch Flamand Knife
(which he did) and it is my very favorite knife.

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/10/dutch-flamand-knife-with-sheath-by-ken.html

Oooh, if you look closely, you will see a "Dutch Flamand" Knife in sheath hanging from around the Neck of Ken Hamilton. Very cool!

http://www.atholdailynews.com/sites/default/files/Petersham-Historical-program-7-17-2x-w-story-1.jpg

I hope to acquire another style of "Dutch Flamand" from another Blacksmith friend here in Maine who, like Ken, is also a Historian.

http://flintlockforge.weebly.com/about.html


HARDBALL

 

[LX_Emergency]

Thanks for the compliment. It's a fun style that isn't done all that much yeah. The examples you're showing really put mine to shame.

 

[HARDBALL]

Hi LX,

Nawwwh, your knife is very nice! Sure, the one I have from Ken Hamilton is very fancy and beautiful and I LOVE it. However, it is so nice that it's more of a "collector" knife than a user.
This is why I hope to one day have Blacksmith/Historian Jeff Miller make me his version (which I've seen/handled) which is more of a "utilitarian" (every day) version of the Dutch Flamand Knife being more robust
and begging to be used! Yes indeed, it is a fun style of knife.

HARDBALL

 

[Mecha]

Nice blade LX, a look into part the long and interesting history of knives.