A Hopeful New Bladesmith Starting Out

C

Crocus88

Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
21
Hi everyone!

Name's Filip, 30 years old, and the wife let me start knife making. That's how all good stories start.

I'm in the process of gathering tools and materials and my gentle OCD wants me to always double check everything, so I came here for some advicd and suggestions.

So let's start, cause I believe this might get long(ish) . Sorry...

Anyway, I'm building a two firebrick propane furnace. At the time I need something small and mobile, but in a few months I plan on making a coal pit.

As tools go, I've decided I wanna start slow. Forge every blade as close as possible to shape before having to shave material. Also, as I don't have a belt grinder, nor a drill press, I'll only get a drill now and do all the grinding by hand with the use of files. Financial reasons aside, I really do wanna start slow, I think that will make for less room for errors and will get me closer to the steel. Not to mention the results will also be much more satisfying (at least for me). Once I get sick of fileing, I'll make my own belt grinder.

I got much of the tools covered, biggest issuea being the tongs. I'm from Croatia and getting proper forging equipment here is a pain. I found some old tongs in the yellow pages, will have to see if some are still available. If not, can I use anything else that I'm sure to have lying around in the shed?

I plan on making my own micarta as well, but I got that part covered.

Now the biggest issue I have is the steel. Getting steel from US is pricey. There are some EU steel webshops, and what I found and liked the best is 80CrV5 still. I believe that should be good for starting out, but I'd like to get more suggestions, especially from people from Europe or anyone familiar with EN or DIN Standards.
I've contacted a couple of "steel-er dealers" in Croatia, but no luck so far, mostly just low carbon steels, or long lead times or big quantities needed for order.

Also, I was wondering about thickness. I found a good price on 3,2 mm 80CrV5 (1/8"). Would that be OK for some smaller beginner blades? I don't plan on doing a full V grind on any of my first knives so I presume I won't be taking much of that 1/8" from the spine.

I also plan on doing a complete HT on my own so please recommend only steels that I can HT in a shed... And a kitchen oven.

I don't wanna get anywhere near close to junkyards or similar places, or cut up saws, chain bars etc. in order to get some free steel. I wanna know what I'm supposed to do as I learn. If I screw up, I wanna know what that specific steel needed me to do, and know where I made a mistake. I don't want to learn forging and HT by not knowing what the material needs.

That's all for now, hope I manage to get into making my first knife fairly soon and hopefully, I'll get some great tips and spend some quality times here.

Cheers!
 
Yes I’d definitely start by forging a couple pairs of tongs. There are lots of YouTube videos covering everything you need to know about making them. Rebar or any round stock will be fine. You didn’t mention anything about an anvil or ASO but I assume you have that covered since you plan on forging blades.

1/8” stock is quite thin to forge but if you only forge in the bevels and do some shaping you may be ok.
 
Yotestalker said:
As cheap as possible to accomplish a task is very realistic. You’re just repeating something you’ve heard at some point. Nobody ever said be cheap and do crappy work. I said to complete something “as cheap as possible”. People made high quality things well before there were expensive tools to “buy”.
Don’t be sucked into the mentality that you have to have the best to produce good quality craftsmanship. It’s not realistic....
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Devin Thomas has been in the business a very long time, and he's very good at what he does. You might want to look into who you're replying to before you offer them advice or tell them their opinion on the subject is misguided. Especially when their expertise is proven and yours isn't.

http://www.devinthomas.com/

Does it look like he's just repeating what he's heard on the internet?
 
Yotestalker said:
Ocelot, certainly not trying to make enemies here by any means. I’m a complete newbie to knife making as well. BUT, I’m a man of great talent when it comes to fixing about anything. I’ve worked with my hands my entire life. I don’t believe in having to spend big bucks on expensive tools, although I typically own the best of everything when it comes to tools. I believe in buying the best you can afford. But, with that said, I also believe that you can accomplish a lot if you put your mind to work to overcome what your wallet can’t afford.
Many men can accomplish much more with a lesser tool than what others can accomplish with a greater tool - because they put more effort/thought into it.
I don’t know Jim from Jack in this forum. But I won’t be told I can’t swap out and engine without an engine puller, or cut a tree down without a chainsaw.
There are men out there who can make and outstanding knife with less than $50 in tools. You CAN do it as cheap as possible. Period.

There are lots of people that believe you have to spend big money to accomplish a task the way “they” accomplish it however, a thoughtful mind can overcome many of those obstacles. That’s what I was saying.
His comment was rather discouraging and not entirely realistic. A man can do as good of work with less tools than a man with every tool if he puts in the extra effort.
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I’ve been making knives for 41 years and started with very little equipment but a lot of determination. In fact, determination is all you need to make a knife.

I’ll say it again, as cheap as possible is NOT the best way to make a knife.

Extra long posts with lots of words does not mean you’re right.

Hoss
 
Yotestalker said:
And I looked at his website but I’m not entirely sure what you expected me to see? He makes knives. Okay... Isn’t there many here that do?
Here’s a story for ya....
In my town we have a few mechanics shops. Many of them are very high-tech with all the latest gadgets and extremely expensive equipment. The single most busiest shop in town is an 80 year old man’s shop who has the most basic of equipment, just enough to do what is required to read today’s sophisticated autos. He’s so busy not because of his equipment but, because he’s just good and produces quality work. You can be flashy but it doesn’t make you better.
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You talk too much.

Hoss
 
Yotestalker said:
Oh I fully admit I know pretty much nothing about making knives. Won’t even attempt to argue that point.
What I’m arguing about here is when guys who have the best equipment tell people who are just starting out that they cannot produce a quality product without a large investment.
Quality things can still be made without a huge investment - hence my comment as cheap as “possible. “Possible” meaning you probably will need to make “some investment but, not the big money other’s are doing.
Sure, you’re not going to produce them on a level where it would even be remotely profitable but, doesn’t mean it won’t be quality.
And likewise, old timer...there is one of you on every forum, as well - the old mechanic who believes his snap on tools are so much better than the guy using Craftsman....
I’ve got nothing else to say.
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You are so excited about arguing that you haven’t tried to understand what I said.

Hoss
 
Calm down folks - the OP is just starting out. I'm understanding the OP is just starting with forging, and first step is to learn forging. NOT making a high quality knife. Most likely the first few pieces of steel could well be trashed so why not use some cheap (as in free?) steel to learn the basics of forging? Perhaps some rebar to make tongs? Maybe old car springs, either flat or coil to learn to pound on and shape a knife. Practice getting blade to shape, working on point, then forging bevels. Don't forget forging the tang, while it looks simple it does take a bit of skill to forge a decent tang and shoulders. Once 2 or 3 blades are forged to a nice shape and the OP feels comfortable with new skills, then spend money for expensive knife making steel? Remember, he's not in a location to hop on internet and place a "cheap" order for blade material.
 
I apologize, look at Tai Goo for inspiration here. One of the greatest knife makers ever. He sold some very nice equipment to make knives the “neo-tribal” way.

Hoss
 
Hi Filip! Welcome.
Crocus88 said:
Hi everyone!
I got much of the tools covered, biggest issues being the tongs. I'm from Croatia and getting proper forging equipment here is a pain. I found some old tongs in the yellow pages, will have to see if some are still available. If not, can I use anything else that I'm sure to have lying around in the shed?


I also plan on doing a complete HT on my own so please recommend only steels that I can HT in a shed... And a kitchen oven.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
I'll back up the tong recommendation. Mr Yotestalker has a point about not NEEDING the best tools in order to do good work, but I'll argue with him about tongs. Yes, you can weld on a handle to a piece of stock if you have a welder, and you can use vice grips or channel locks to grab hot metal, but I'd caution against putting your faith in stacks of welding gloves. Reaching into a hot forge and grabbing something with your fingers, even with welding gloves, is an extremely bad idea.
Making some tongs has multiple benefits. You will learn how hot metal moves, how to forge (ie, what order to do things while forging), and tongs have longer handles that make reaching into the forge a lot easier.

I don't know the EU standards, but if you are planning on doing your heat treating at home with your basic equipment (basically what I was using for a few years) you'll want to stick with simple high carbon steels (1075, 1080, 1095, O1, etc)

Have fun and good luck! Post pics of your work!
 
1.2510 is O1 which is used all over eu
Most engineer suppliers has it and lots of info here what to do with it
 
Welcome Flip. Lots of good info in the many "New Maker" threads. Use the custom search engine in the stickys to find them. Also, there are usually two or three on the first couple pages of current threads.

Yotestalker - You would do yourself a big favor to read more and post less. You are by your own words a person thinking of taking up knifemaking, not an established maker with any real experience. Answering a question that is asked of the people who have been there and done that makes you look like a troll. I am sure you are just excited to be in a new and exciting hobby, but give yourself some time before advising other new makers. BTW, enabling messaging or email would allow this to be sent to you without having to put it in this thread.
 
Well, thank you for your welcome guys, though I'm not particulary glad that my thread caused a... let's go with "heated debate".

While I do agree with Yotestalker that you don't need the most expenise tools and materials to do anything really, I have to say that I also agree with what DevinT said, cheapest possible way is not the best. In my life I've taken interest in things and the cheaper I went in, the results weren't as good. If anything, learning to do somethong with makeshift tools or unknown materials in my opinion has a greater chance of making you learn something wrong, or setting a steeper learning curve (like learnong to heat trear unknown steel, I don't see how you can learn anything by guesswork).

I don't wanna invest too much from the start, but I don't want to be too cheep either. I bought a 70$ propane torch, as I think it will be a great benefit to have something good for the furnace.

I managed to found some old tongs for about 15 bucks as well. I won't buy an expensive hammer, or an anvil, I've got a piece of a RR track at home.

I have some scrap metal that I'll use for trying out shaping by forging. But that's it, I won't do anything else with that. Once I get the hang of how the metal flows, I'll use known steel to make a knife. From forging to heat treating.

I will take your guys' advice and make a couple more pairs of tongs. Different kind from what I'll buy second hand.

Regarding 1084, 1080 etc. I cannot find AISI steel in Croatia. I can get EN/W. Nr. (like 1.2510 or 80CrV5) on some EU websites. I have yet to get an offer from domestic retailers for high-carb steel.

Also, Stacy, thank you for the advice and I know opening the same posts by new memvers time after time is a problem, but I mainly wanted to introduce myself and ask questions I couldn't find answers to in this and other forums (mainly for non-AISI steel).

Thanks again to everyone.
 
Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders and are able to "separate the wheat from the chaff" so to speak (hopefully this idiom is universal enough). And that tells me you'll do quite well.

Like I said, I look forward to seeing pics of your work progression.
 
weo said:
Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders and are able to "separate the wheat from the chaff" so to speak (hopefully this idiom is universal enough). And that tells me you'll do quite well.

Like I said, I look forward to seeing pics of your work progression.
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Thank you. Yes, the expression is pretty universal, understood what you wanted to say :)

Hopefully I'll have something to show by the end of March. My tools should be completed next week and then it will be off to forging. Unless I hit some bumps with my setup, but I don't expect any big problems.
 
Started with channel lock pliers because I didn’t have tongs. They “work”...mostly. I will say, I was VERY happy after a maker had me over as we made some tongs. They hold the hot steel much better than pliers. There were multiple occasions with pliers where I was dodging hot steel that was flying through the air when the pliers couldn’t hold it. Thankfully no burns (on me) resulted. Cheaper “can” get you there, but it can also be rather painful. And go hit the nail on the head with the learning curve. Anything you can do to help flatten that curve is worthwhile. Known steel for your knife, reasonable equipment, taking a class from an experienced maker, etc. It all adds up to your ability to more effectively and efficiently reach your goal. Best of luck and I look forward to seeing how your journey progresses.

Jeremy
 
Yotestalker said:
When I built my first home over 30 years ago, I used a hammer to attach every single board, shingle, etc. Not a single air tool ever touched that jobsite. Today, every home is built using air nailers. They’ll both do the same job but one makes it easier.
My point, that many if you seemed to not understand, is that a man can work around obstacles and achieve the same results until he can afford an easier route.
It had nothing at all to do with knife making.
It doesn’t take a carpenter to realize an air nailer is quicker and easier than a hammer when building a home. It doesn’t take a knife maker to tell a guy he can make his own tongs, use channel locks, or find some other alternative that’ll work for now. And I didn’t deserve being scolded for doing so.
That’s all I’ve got to say. Maybe I’ll find a different knife making place to hang out. A few guys here seem to think only seasoned knife makers have half a brain and everyone else are simply idiots.
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Dude, it’s time for you to move on. You do not play well with others.

Hoss
 
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