A little help!

B

Balis Edge

Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
614
Hi guys,

I'm not sure if you remember, but I was in the process of making my own balisong. I have the blade steel cut and I'll be grinding and heat treating this weekend. As far as handles go, what is the best steel and what dimensions? I'm thinking about adding some inserts after milling out a design, or I'll just drill some holes. What type of adhesive is best for holding the inserts? OR, how do you set them another way? Thanks for the help.

Mer, if you're out there I'd appreciate some more pointers. You have been especially helpful!
 
303 is what BM used to use. Which is what I wish they would bring back. Not being a smith of any kind, thats my suggestion.
 
me thinks Mer uses 303 stainless also.

On a side note, I would somehow pin the inserts it, the glue will eventually dry and from the handles slamming together, break apart.
 
hey, you may be able to use epoxy to apply the inlets. The kind of epoxy i am talking about is the kind that you mix the black and white substances together. Just idea, think about it.
 
for example...this Dobruski has some type of adhesive but also has pins inserted to make sure it doesn't go anywhere

901031.jpg


The handle slots where the inserts go are also milled out on an angle, and the insert slides in the. That's another way to hold it tighter...this pic may be more of an example for this design

901022.jpg


i hope you can see what I mean. Someone with a Dobruski will be able to post better pics of this design

pics taken from www.taymo.com/en
 
Mr. YODA,

Thanks for the help. Do you mean that the ends are milled with a curve? That's the impression I got from the picture, but if I'm wrong try to clarify that.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts and experiences in the production of my balisong.
 
In keeping with the already given opinions...I'll go with 303 also. I've never handled a custom BM before, but the last set of handles I started were made of 303, with buffalo horn inserts. I never got to finish them, but that's mostly because I'm lazy. Anyway, the reason I suggest you using them is because they are very stainless and easily machinable. You can take relatively big cuts with no worries that you'll break your cutter.

My biggest suggestion for you is: take your time when drilling out the holes for the pivot pins to go into. They are one of the last steps in the machining process (at least how I do it) and if you mess them up, you'll basically have to throw the work away as well as all the time you spent on it.

Good luck in completing your project!
 
you are half right...try to picture this...

if you are looking at the knife horizontally with the blade flat(not up and down)the handles look like /___________\

and the insert is slide right in there, glued or expoxied or chewing gummed down, and pinned it.

Someone with pics of their own will be along soon to show some better pics, I hope.
 
Originally posted by Mr YODA
if you are looking at the knife horizontally with the blade flat(not up and down)the handles look like /___________\
Click to expand...
The correct term for that is a "dovetail", where the mating surfaces are cut at an angle for better interlocking, and also prevent the pieces from moving in a certain direction. The epoxy is nice, but the pins are better. However, if you do go with the pins, like those in the pic's, make sure you clean out the excess metal in the "channel" (the groove that the blade reside in) or you will scratch the blade and/or cause it to stick.

As for handles I'm thowing another vote for 303. Easy to work on. Available in any size bar stock. If you look at the pic's of Mer's shop, you can see that he starts off with a prices of round stock, and mills away the excess.

Take good heed on that pivot hole suggestion. It needs to be done true or the handles will not line up right. Once you've got that far, be very careful cutting the tang pin cup (those semi-circular notches near the tang) to mate the pins. Cut too much, and there's no tension in the handles against the latch to lock it open. Cut too little, and you can't close the handles together.

Can't wait to see what you've come up with.
 
Yeah, like what tony was saying... you can always take more cuts on your work, but once you cut too much...you can't put it back on. That's the mistake I made on my first set of brass handles :mad:
 
When I bought my steel, my supplier did not have 303. Instead, I purchased 304 stainless 1/4" thick for slab handles. He mentioned that 303 is easy to machine, but it's a very poor steel. Any comments on this. He said 304 is a little better and not much more difficult to work with. Do I need to heat treat the handles too?
 
Without having an expensive mill, is it still possible to create a balisong handle of this common style?

With more common woodworking tools for example. (almost everyone has some workworking tools, but metal tools [Lathes, mills, etc] seem to be only for the hardcore, talented hobbyists). The part that always scares me is removing material that's not on the outside. For example, removing the interior of the handles where the blade rests when closed. The only way I could think of was to half-assedly use a drillpress to drill circles, move it over 1/8", drill again, and then some kind of hacksaw/dremel bit to make it flat/straight.

I know one traditional Philipino method uses *only* handtools, not even powered drills, saws, or grinders.. but they take sheet metal and bend it IIRC. Is it possible any other way?
 
Cynake: One reason the FHM's are done with the folded brass (U-Channel) method is that it doesn't take much in tools to do it. Folding over a piece of brass simply requires a hammer and a form. Short of using hundreds of man hours with a file, it'll be very difficult to do a set of channel milled handles, without a power tool. Your method of multiple drilling isn't a bad idea as it will remove large chunks of metal, and if you have a drill press that can handle the 5" of height you could probably get a decent groove by drilling it vertically. Either way, it comes down to how much effort for the desired result. Less effort from you will require more sophisticated tools.

Look at past posts about the Tachyons and see the advantages to the sandwich construction, you'll see there's been a lot discussion on this style of construction. If you set aside the extreme tight tolerances achieved by MT in the Tachyon's construction, and just look at the core example of sandwiching two pieces of metal together, you'll see that it's very doable with regular house hold power tools. The assembly will be more involved, but the equipment requirement is much less. Hope this is what you were looking for.
 
Mr. YODA, Thanks for posting the pics of the Dobruski CB-31, my "planner" will hate me -- but -- I'm thinking that would be great with SS handles and stag inserts. Gawd, it would have to live in the safe !!
 
*nod*.. thanks Tony. That's about what I was thinking but it's nice to hear someone say it to confirm. Sandwich is obviously easier to build.. but.. I just find it hideous.

There's a certain respect I have for artwork that ignores complications and just does what the artist thinks is best. For example, how much efford should an artist put into something he's painting/carving? Almost instantly comes to mind "The best within his/her skill limitations". It's just not satisfactory to have half-assed art. It should be made as good as possible. You rarely have someone set a goal of an "okay" piece of art, and then focus on the best way to create it. You don't set a limit, and say "however I can".

Then there's the flip side.. my opinion to something that's not art, but instead engineered. In this case I find a limited goal, with the best possible method to achieve the set goal. It doesn't have to be perfect, it has to meet the requirements.. and do so with the cheapest/most efficient method. You don't need a floor of a house to support it's rooms being packed solid with lead. It's wasteful. You set a limit, and put the effort into achieving the limit in the best way.

Knives however.. are both at once. You can go for the less artistic more "easiest way possible" Charming Chinese products (Bad art, badly made).. or you can go for the elaborate customs (Beautiful, and well made). Or some of each. I find the Tachyon to be very well engineered, and hideous. The only beauty I find in it, is that which comes from how perfectly it was engineered.

I suppose everyone goes through this ballancing process when creating something themselves. How much is it going to be a work of art, and how much is it going to be a.. product. Of course, both are limited by skill... I can't paint a Mona Lisa, nor could I design a stealth bomber. I suppose I'll just put as much effort into both areas as I'm skill-wise capable of.. and use whatever effort it takes to get there.

*stops rambling*.. amazing how much that made me stop and think..
 
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