a little rust from a khukuri stored in my backpack

C

cognitivefun

Joined
Oct 24, 2004
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It is stored in my backpack, in its scabbard. It got slightly rusty despite the Ballistol. I guess because it's sealed up in there. I am going to air it out, get rid of the rust and re-apply Ballistol.

Have you had this issue with khuks you've stored in enclosed places?
 
Recently, over the course of several days our weather changed from Winter to Summer. There wasn't much of a Spring.

I'd aquired an antler-handled seax not too long ago. As I drew it for an examination, I noticed the tiniest specks on it and an obscene amount of condensation inside the leather sheath. Nothing else in the collection displayed this. As the seax had recently come from another part of the country, I figured that that played a role in it. Fortunately I'd caught it early enough - the specks polished out and I let the sheath air dry for a few days. No further issues.

Leather and wood need to be watched. It doesn't take much to accumulate a bit of moisture, I guess. I also tend to give a new sheath or scabbard a couple of good shots of Ballistol in the interior after a few days' worth of adjustment to the new climate, which I hadn't done with the seax. I'm not sure how much it helps but I like the idea of a blade picking up more oil each time it sees the scabbard.

The best solution in my mind is to use everything as often as possible; the non-users just get a weekly inspection. As tarnished as my users usually are, they never seem to rust.
 
It has long been known not to store guns in holsters or gun bags.

However, the only khuk I had rust a little was left in a damp truck.


munk
 
I've had khukuris get rust on them from being in the backpack just on a backpacking trip of 3 days or so when it was damp.

That's one of the reasons I like the villagers. It seems to me the blade doesn't look as bad when you remove the rust. Still some super polishy sandpaper and using my little 3" buffing wheel that goes on my drill press seems to work pretty well.
 
If you're going to store a khuk in its sheath I'd put a patina on it. My WW2 with a mustard patina has held up well in my car's trunk, which gets very humid. Patina + Eezox gun care sprayed on.
 
hollowdweller said:
That's one of the reasons I like the villagers. It seems to me the blade doesn't look as bad when you remove the rust. Still some super polishy sandpaper and using my little 3" buffing wheel that goes on my drill press seems to work pretty well.
Click to expand...


Ditto,

Sooner or later a 14 inch BDC Villager or a BGRS villager will come through when I have money and can afford it.
 
Very Strange points of view. I'd guess the contrast between the highly polished surface of a regular HI khuk with some rust is more startling that the same condition with a satin Villager.

But, a highly polished surface theoretically should not rust as easily.
and Two, you can always put a satin finish on a reg khuk- like a villager
and Three, Bill once said he would not guarentee the metal in a villager was Mercedes Truck spring, or?

There was once a handfull of large 20" AK Villagers offered for sale, 6 or 7 or them I think. Sher made them. I got one. The metal is not the same as a reg HI khuk. IMHO.

I've used the Villager for brutal tasks. IT would have won the 'ugly contest' we had a year or two ago.

But anyway, there's an assumption the Villager is the same as a reg hi khuk except for finish, and I don't think we can make that assumption.

If you want your regular HI khuk to look like a Villager, you can do that. Then if it rusts, you'll be relieved. (for reasons beyond me)

This isn't to say some Villagers arent the same as reg HI khuks, metal wise. I'm sure that happens too.

All my Khuks are gradually approaching the look of Villagers anyway- through use and aquiring the Satin finish.

Once I read about spring selection in the forum.
Mercedes Truck spring was the first pick, if the kamis couldn't get that they went to a Toyota spring, and I don't remember what the third choice was. (and it may even be the Toyota was the 3rd and I've forgotten the 2nd.)

I thnk this 'list' from wherever it was 'discovered' has changed some over the years too.

I'd like to know what the Kamis use. How many Mercedes trucks can one nation have, anyway?


munk
 
I have noticed the "green" leather on brand new seax's & JKM's can contact-rust the blades where it touches... lotta moisture in that fresh leather... so it's a good idea to store them apart til the leather cures a bit.

Doesn't happen like that to a khuk cause the inside of the sheath is wood, and they don't touch, usually.


Ad Astra
 
....and I have this strong belief that HI is only going to get better under Yangdu. Remember I said it here first. I think she has a discriminating eye and level head. I don't know how many times I've read from Bill, "Can't see what's wrong with it, 10/10 rig to me, but Yangdu says it's a blem so here it is.."

But some things may never be known. The Kamis are a stubborn, opinionated lot- this from the 'untouchable class"? (Kings in sheep's clothing?) Remember when Bill gave them free rein to run wild- and they turned around with a whole bunch of standard items?

It has been fashionable to take the Villager and refinish to top HI standards. Some of the wood-chuck boys used to print photos of before and after.

The Villager is a great value. It always will be. My own had too many depressions and hammer marks to ever be as clean as a regular HI khuk. I asked Bill about it. "It's a Villager!" He said. But we know that varies too, not only in Villagers, but in the regular line. I have many beautiful khuks with uneven liines and marks, and some with nearly perfect lines, planes, and marks. We learn to appreciate our individuals.



munk
 
No answers from me, only more questions and observations.

1. Mirror finish "seems" to be more resistant to rust, but oil kind of beads up on it, theoretically giving less protection from rust.

2. Satin finish "seems" to rust more easily, but also holds oil better, which should help prevent rust.

So my question is this. Is this a paradox, a conundrum, an enigma, or simply hydrated ferric oxides? :p

Steve
 
Munk,

You raise 2 interesting points.

First on the metal in Villagers. Like you say the metal in the villagers SHOULD rust faster than the highly polished ones, However in my experience it does not. So wonder if has some property that prevents it? I have a non HI villager and on that one the blade and the bolster seems to rust about like a regular HI.

Then second you mention yours had way too many hammer marks to be clean.

On almost all of my villagers seem to have some sort of blade flaw on them to where if they were polished out they still wouldn't be up to the standard that the regular blades have. I have often wondered if when they are forging a blade if they look at it and it has too many hammer marks or the blade is irregular they put the rough handle and silver bolster and it becomes a villager, but it's really kind of like a factory second? Of course if that's the case then what I am talking about the different steel in the previous paragraph would not really be valid.

I like the Villagers I have the best. I have said this before but I think they seem harder and hold an edge as well or maybe even a little better than the originals.

I have always wondered if the extra polishing heated up the blade too much in some cases and that accounted for my perception. Would heating up the blade make any difference in the rusting rate?
 
I think they set out to make villagers and make them, Hollow. The steel on my villager is not the same, as were all the villagers in that set. It may be as hard, but it's 'chewier', and does not hold an edge as well. If all the steel was the same, your idea of 'seconds' would have more validity, but even Bill suggested it may not always or even generally be the same.

Maybe the Villager steel is not worked as much; either while still on the vehicle or once at the forge.

I think they take the still good but less desirable/expensive steel and bang out villagers. I think steel is expensive and the best stuff getting harder to find. I think this is why the blade weight and thickness has declined over the years; that and popular demand the khuks not be so heavy or thick!!! (and shipping costs)

You recognize neither yours nor my own experience is enough to generalize on this topic- but I have Uncle Bill's own comments on this matter to reinforce my own view.

As for polishing heating the blade too much- I doubt it, but ask a Metal Head! As for your khuks rusting, here's an idea- what about the possibility that the metal used in Villagers is more rust resistant?




munk
 
Ferguson; satin finish holding trace oil- interesting idea.

Could villager steel be more rust resistant than reg HI steel?




munk
 
munk said:
As for polishing heating the blade too much- I doubt it, but ask a Metal Head! As for your khuks rusting, here's an idea- what about the possibility that the metal used in Villagers is more rust resistant?
munk
Click to expand...

That's kinda what I was getting at. But unlike your experience the steel has always seemed to hold an edge BETTER on my villagers. Of course all my villagers are recent, and like you say it's hard to generalize when you don't have a bunch of blades. Also the only 3 I have had the edge roll, bend, or crack off have all been standard models. Munk, do you just have the one villager or several? If several, how do they compare to each other? Is it a recent one or old?

One of the things I was wondering was IF they are more rust resistant, is it due to difft. steel or some difference like you say in the working or heat treating of the steel? Does anyone know if a harder or less hard steel rusts more/less?
 
My WW2 with the patina is one of those half-price WW2 villagers from that big sale a year or so ago. It holds up well against rust, but it's had a patina put on and then it was rubbed mostly clean with superfine steel wool. It holds an edge quite well, too.
 
Hollow, I had three blade failures during the time of the Maoist uprising, a shaky time for kamis and QC. Bill told me a forumite had explained to him, a Statistician who worked with wood and busted several khuks also, that it is likely that a single individual experience what appears to be an undue amount of chance; all within the realm of probability. Bill wasn't going to sell to this guy anymore, but did, and no further blades broke. Same thing happened to me- I got more than my share of bad blades, but haven't had trouble since.

Now, my Villager was one of a lot of about 7, maybe more. Bill said they were all the same. They were made by Sher, not known for making a weak blade.

I actually think my Villager less prone to cracking or breakage because of the characteristic of the metal- remember, I said it was 'chewy'. It seems to be more resiliant than my reg HI blades. I don't mean soft, I mean tough and chewy.

I'm over my head here- but if different metals and heat treatments sharpen differently, might they also perform differently in various cutting medias? Maybe your Villagers don't retain an edge longer- you just think they do. Or maybe they do- but don't cut as deep. And not displacing at much material, they lose their edge slower. Like I said, I'm over my head. But if villagers retained an edge longer and rusted less, geuss which HI blades would cost us more?


munk
 
These cut deeper. But they also have the thinner edge. Maybe it's the thinner edge that makes me think that they keep their edge longer. I have several that have the steeper edge and they seem to dull more quickly. More resistance? 2 are Bura 1 is Amtrak.
 
unfortunately, there are too many variables to ever be able to conduct real scientific tests/analysis.

And it has been my experience that generally speaking, a villager is a "mutt". That is, who knows what its heritage is, and who cares. 9 out of 10 will be wonderful companions - but there's always the one that will bite you.

The kamis don't like to make villagers, Pala doesn't like to ship them, and Bill didn't like selling them. But we sure like to buy 'em.....:D

I think if we got to see how they were made in person, we would be equally disgruntled and amazed.


To answer the question.....honestly, I haven't had enough villagers around to do good enough comparisons. I usually take good care of what I've got, but if it rusts, I just clean it off.....guess I should pay more attention.


I've said this before, but bears repeating (apologizing to those who've heard it)

If you use your khukuri, let it "cool off" before you re-sheath it. You build up heat in the blade, which causes the air around it to condense. In the open air, this is fine, because it will evaporate. Inside a sheath, it will sweat - leather is a wonderful insulator - and will rust. This is a fact whether your sheath is leather or kydex, treated or not. (this is why many khukuris have rusted tips)

Then, on top of that, if your sheath is unprotected veg-tanned leather, the acids left over in the leather will add to and quicken the rusting process.


There ya go - sorry I can't be of more help.
 
It's very difficult to figure out why some kuks cut differently than others because there are so many factors which influence performance, from the steel used, to the forging and hardening which was done, to the blade weight, length, edge geometry, and how it was sharpened.

One reason that oil beads up on the polished blades is because of the buffing process which leaves a smoother surface and, at least in the West, the buffing compound is impregnated into a waxy sort of medium. I don't know what the kamis use for buffing, but if it's like what people use in this country then it may leave a protective residue.

Temperatures reached during buffing usually shouldn't be enough to damage the temper, unless somebody really did a bad mistake, because it needs to exceed 400 something degrees Fahrenheit to wreck the temper.

The hardness and rust resistance of steels are not directly related, small impurities or alloy elements can increase or decrease one or either of those characteristics.

One reason that villagers may seem to rust less than regular HIs would be if they get a regular cleaning after each use with a mild abrasive such as a Scotch-brite pad, whereas one probably wouldn't use something scratchy like that on a polished surface.
 
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