A Living

A

AcesAndEights

Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
96
I have a bit of a strange question for some of you makers out there. How good of a career is knifemaking? I know most of you have a great love of knives, but does it bring in enough bank to support you and your families independently?

Forgive me if this was too personal or blunt, but Im interested in pursuing this as a possible career. I was wondering if its more of an extended hobby that needs another job to support it, or if you can live comfortably making knives.

***UPDATED***

Thanks for all the replies everyone. This topic has been very informative, and has made me rethink attempting it, however, I think Im still going to pursue this to some extent once i have a place to set up a decent shop. Again, thanks to everyone who replied.
 
This is taken from an article in the August Blade magazine. It is from a quote by Les Robertson: "There could be as many as 3,500 makers in the U.S. today"...Of the 3,500 makers, however, Les indicates that only 500-700 are "active in the business of knifemaking"---in other words, exhibiting at knife shows, advertising, etc. Of that number, he estimates that only about 50 depend on knifemaking as their sole source of income.

If those numbers are even close to being accurate, then it would appear that knifemaking is more a labor of love, than it is a wise career choice. From what I have read posted by many makers on this forum, making a living as a knifemaker is a tough go.
 
In a word, "no."

Even though this is my full-time job...at this point it's really not enough to support a family and home.

I'm working on it... but it's certainly a tough road... and one that most veteran makers recommend NOT following ;)

-Nick-
 
Here is my understanding of the handmade knife market that every knifemaker if he/she wants to make a living from it have to take into account.

Virtually all handmade knife purchases are discretionary, very few people actually need a handmade knife and as such any down turns in the economy hits these purchases first. Nearly all handmade knives cost more to make than the equivalent production knives in terms of materials used and degree of fit and finish. The handmade knife maker cannot compete on price with production knives and in most cases performance, so the market is providing people with knives that production companies can't or won't make.

In order to make a living, the handmade knifemaker has to create a buzz for his/her work by making his/her work and name known to a fairly small circle of knife enthusiasts by getting his/her work into shows, magazines, books and talked about in forums such as this. This take time, energy and a nack for self promotion so no wall flowers.

He/she also has to understand the current knife market, what sells and what dosen't and constantly innovate to keep up with trends and differentiate his/her work from other makers and improve his/her standards of work to keep up with the competition from other knifemakers and mass manufacturers.

All this is expensive, going to show is expensive, as is getting your knives professionally photographed, keeping up with trends, buying good qaulity equipement and supplies and inbetween making a few knives some of which won't sell at a profit.

If you can do all that and still getting an adequate income, you can be a full time knifemaker.
 
It depends on what you call a living? I really don't mean that as a wise comment either. We make our living solely on knives but, also raise our own meat, don't have cable, satellite, 4-wheelers, plasma tv, a boat or alot of other toys. Plus, we work almost constantly...and it can still be tight at times. Like it was already said, you have to love doing it. Finishing something by hand that will be used and appreciated by someone for years and years to come (and long after I'm gone) makes up for alot of the fancy stuff.
J.
 
Shing said:
...Virtually all handmade knife purchases are discretionary, very few people actually need a handmade knife and as such any down turns in the economy hits these purchases first. Nearly all handmade knives cost more to make than the equivalent production knives in terms of materials used and degree of fit and finish. The handmade knife maker cannot compete on price with production knives and in most cases performance, so the market is providing people with knives that production companies can't or won't make.
Click to expand...

I think most of the above is true, but I will take vigorous exception to the statement that production knives will outperform hand made knives at a lower cost.

A well made custom knife with a premium steel, good blade geometry and good heat treatment will outperform all but the most expensive production knives, also made with premium steels. Production knives that can compete will be expensive.
 
Shing said:
The handmade knife maker cannot compete on price with production knives and in most cases performance, so the market is providing people with knives that production companies can't or won't make.
Click to expand...

shgeo said:
...but I will take vigorous exception to the statement that production knives will outperform hand made knives at a lower cost.
Click to expand...

I agree with shgeo completely on this one. I do not believe for one minute that production knives outperform customs.
 
What pisses me off is that our craft is still not accepted as an art, even when you're up to Tim Herman's level!
Because it's sharp and has a point and is percieved as a weapon by the sheeple, we'll never gain the respect of the masses, there bye never be able to make the real good living other supposed "artists" make.
I watch alot of tv that shows some jackass spending a tenth the time making a pot that we spend making a knife and since the pot is a work of art it sells for twice the price that our knives do. Drives me up the wall!!!!!!!!
I don't know.
 
In my opinion, collectors do consider knifemakers to be artists. Every year there are more and more people that are getting into collecting custom knives. These people have quite often spent a great deal of time researching the custom knife market and are very educated. This is in a large part because of the internet and its tremendous value as a resource for learning.

To me, the big problem for newbie knifemakers is that there is such a huge number of folks already making knives. Also, hundreds more start up each year. It is an incredibly competitive market and one where you really have to stand out to be noticed.

There are so many things to consider when making a decision like changing to knifemaking as a way to make your living. If you are single it is a lot easier to make that choice. A wife, or a wife and kids change the whole dynamics of that decision. If it were me, I would start out as a part time maker and see where things took me.
 
I kick and scratch and beg to make a living in ironwork, I do make knives,but they aren't my only money maker in the shop.

I support myself, my wife (who's in school) a dog, a goldfish and 2 birds. I don't have any health insurance, and bills may or may not be on time every month, but it's the only thing I'm any good at, so it's what I do. If you can make a living any other way, do, and keep knife making as a hobby.

I've been swinging a hammer professionally for 10 years, but I've taken "breaks" from time to time when things got really slow. (or when I was suffering I always come back to iron work though as it really is the only thing I'm good at.

As far as I know it's about the hardest way to earn a living. I'm not well known. my knives don't grace the covers of magazines, and since I'm a pretty staunch non-joiner, they probaly never will.

I won't try and estimate how much money I make every year, as it varies wildly. I usually do end up owing the IRS a lot more than I think I should, but I don't drive a new car or live in a nice part of town.

To sum it up; If you can make a living doing anything else, you're wise to do so.

Tony
 
Sage wisdom coming from a lot of makers here. Truth be known, even the most-prolific knifemakers, leatherworkers, scrimshanders and engravers only make a modest living at it. Its an absorbing craft.

I am fortunate to be able call a couple "high-end" makers my friends. They are good friends, and inspirational heroes to me. They both make a very good living from making knives, but considering their knives typically sell for four figures apiece, and they have many knives being sold by purveyors, well you get the idea. It also helps to have an additional income form annuities and retirement funds, as is also the case.

J. Neilson said, "Plus, we work almost constantly..." I totally agree, J. Same here. You are right - it is a labor of love. J also stated,"...don't have cable, satellite, 4-wheelers, plasma tv, a boat or alot of other toys." I do, but I don't have time to play with them! I have a Honda ATv that only has 160 miles on it. I have a nice boat. I have a new Toyota truck. Know what? Most of these things are getting sold or traded.

I am fortunate to have a wife that loves me and believes in me, and also has a decent income. It does take the pressure off of me somewhat in that I dont have to add a whole lot to the family budgie. We don't need two brand new cars, so one will get sold. The boat is sold. The two ATvs are getting traded in on a motorcycle (sorry... thats one toy I just GOT to have, hehee!). SO I guess the moral of the story here is that if you ply yourself to your craft, you wont have a lot of time to play with toys. Its a different lifestyle, but one that is rich with satisfaction.
 
One of the problems with trying to make money as a knifemaker is that it is a self-limiting profession. At some point, there is a cap as far as how many knives you can make, not to mention the market's ability to pay for them. You will never get Bill Gates rich making knives, primarily because Bill Gates has thousands and thousands of people working to make his money for him, whereas when you make knives it's you and that's it (although some makers employ assistants and people in the shop to do some of the work, I'm talking about 100% by-the-maker stuff). And, for most makers, as the price of the work goes up, the involvement required goes up, too, so it's not as if you can probably make a $5,000 knife everyday, or maybe even every week (although, maybe you can. I don't know the time that goes into the high dollar stuff).

Knifemaking is like any art. You do it because you enjoy it, maybe even because you're driven to do it. But, like most artists in other trades, making knives alone probably won't get you the living you want, or the stability you want. Of course, there are always exceptions, but really, starting your own business is never easy and a lot of it is downright unenjoyable, regardless of the profession.

I've been heavily involved in Bladeforums for 5-6 years or so, and I've seen lots and lots of makers with big names completely burn out, so it's a tough road if you're trying to use it to pay the bills and support a family (or even yourself). Plus, a single accident can take you out of the game, and if knifemaking is like most professions the chance that you can get disability insurance for yourself early on (or ever) is slim to none.
 
Before I came here, I thought, wrongfully, that most knifemakers had an easy living making knives. As I have learned here, for most it is a second job and hobby at the same time. I am not a knifemaker, but I have learned this working for my father, who owns his own business. When you're in business for yourself, if a ten hour job takes fifteen hours, you still only get paid for the ten hours.
 
It would be of great benefit to you if you read the whole thread "Fulltime Makers: Fears and satisfactions" at the top of the regular Shop talk forum.

Most occupations are not as sexy and glamorous as most people think. One acquaintance thought that my being an electrical engineer was really cool and fun. I told him that some of it is cool and fun but there is a lot of crap that goes with the job too. I thought that his being an R&D technician at Ford, developing new cars was cool and fun. He burst my bubble in the same way.

You are taking a good first step by asking those who are already successfully doing what you are considering doing. I have met quite a few people who are dissatisfied with ALL aspects of their occupation, feel they are stuck in it and regret their decision every day.

Good luck!

Phil
 
I am selling my stuff becasue if you are not back or picked up by a production line it is hard to make a good living at it,family's suffer if they are not part of it.
 
I do it part time. I started out doing it for me then other people liked what I was doing so they placed orders. Right now my main goal is to get 2 knives out the door every three weeks. You cannot support a family doing it that way but liek I said, I need to also do this for me and being burnt out isnt a good thang :D

I tend to push myself so I will more likely get 3 knives done every 3 weeks so I cant complaine you know? ;)
 
I think the possiblity is there to make a living as a knifemaker, but as has already been said, it's constant work. Just like any business it's tough to do it all yourself. Being one person you have limitations as to how much you can produce. You can burn out real fast as seems to be the case with Jerry Hossom. My knifemaking is a business/hobby. I have a business license, my trade name is registered with the trade commission and I pay sales tax when I sell my product. I feel there are several different market areas when it comes to the custom knife market. You have the collectors, users and casual buyers. I feel a maker needs to find the market area they want to sell to and make knives accordingly. I make knives for the outdoor user market. People who participate in outdoor activities is who I make for. I won't make knives that use expensive materials or are highly embellished because I want my knives to be used and used alot. That's not to say that there aren't collector grade knives being used out there, it's just that they will be less likely used more so then a "user working" knife will. I think if you find your own niche as a maker, there's no reason why everyone can't find a place in the custom knife arena.
Scott
 
I believe very few of us are driven by the meager profit that most of us realize from our knife making endevers. Can it be done, live comfortable, as a full time maker? Sure it can. But then I believe it would be just the same old "grind" Not the leisure attitude I like to maintain in the shop. I want every piece I make to be something special. I know that would be impossible if I had to pay my mortage every month with my knife maker wages. Fred :cool:
 
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