A makers reputation?

Joined
Dec 11, 2001
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312
I would like to know what people think of makers that use e-bay for selling their knives?
I know this might be a touchy subject, so if you are afraid to post please feel free to e-mail me.
I see lots of knives for sale on e-bay, some go for lots $$ some very little.
would a maker be "settling" for a price, and I guess not really standing behind their price or pride..lol
Really I have no idea about this whole e-bay thing, and would like to see some feed back.

Thanks,
Ron
 
Ron:
I have bought a few knives on E-bay and other auction sites. I find that most of the time the seller sets a reserve price and there fore is not cutting himself or his product short. As a maker I would not have a problem selling on auction sites but I would set my reserve at the lowest price I think my knife is worth. Lots of great exposure for a maker on these sites.

Marcel
 
Personally, I much prefer that a maker post his/her available knives on their website. Tell me how much you want for your work and if I feel your price is fair, I'll pay it.

I have a feeling that Les Robertson may have a few enlightened words to say about makers settling for a price. At least I hope so; I always enjoy learning from his input. :)
 
Ron,

There are good makers that sell on eBay (Craig Stekete for instance). EBay offers good coverage but sometimes the competition is hard and not very fair for those who offer quality.
Let's say you put a good hunting knife for $200 (just an example). You will see lot's of hunters at $50-$100 or such, some of them with kit blades and anyway not the best quality. The average buyer can not make the difference and will probably think "why buy the $200 hunter when I can get for $50 a similar one ?"
Anyway, nothink wrong with selling on EBay. A "knife educated" buyer will know how to choose quality.
 
The use of auctions to sell product below the regular price raises two questions......Is the product sold at auction somehow inferior?........Did I pay an inflated price over the table at the knife show if the maker can now afford to sell the same or similar product at auction for a much lower price?

Either way it can hurt a maker's reputation.
 
I probably shouldn't feel this way, but whenever I see custom knives on Ebay being sold by the actual maker, I am less than impressed. Something about it seems cheesy to me. I know at least 3 such makers, and they are great guys that make very good knives. I think all of these makers could easily sell their products elsewhere.
 
Wow! thanks for all the replies guys, I would have to agree with the majority of you guys.
I`ve been asked a few times why I don`t sell on e-bay, and all I could think of was that it sorta puts a damper on my reputation, that I`m trying hard to build. I`m not a very philosophical guys, and don`t know how to really put my feelings about this in writing, but I just felt that it looks like your willing to take what ever you can get for a knife. of course unless you put a reserve on it, but then you are trying to get more than it may be worth. But what is it worth? it may be worth more to one person than the next.
I have heard that the turn around is great!, the prices moderate. but I`m not sure still if I want to go that route.
also, what if a guy bought a knife for say..$450 at auction the see`s a very similar knife from the same maker at a show for$350, he will probably feel ripped off!, now also on the flip side people see this same knife sell on e-bay for $350, but the maker has $450 listed on his website, wouldn`t people also look strangly at this as to why this knife is priced $450 when it sold for $350?
I would like to see more input on this please.
 
I have sold knives on ebay. As a new maker it was a way to get exposer to a broader base of potentental customers. I also provided a link to my web site and invited them to come see other knives I had for sale and knives I had made. I don't feel that it degrades the quality of my work or says less about my knives. They get the same guarantee off of ebay as they do if they buy from my site or me personally. I do set my reserve price on my knives for what I would sell them for on my web site.

Using ebay, I have sold knives off my web site not listed on ebay. I also received orders from customers after they visited my web site because of a knife on ebay.

I don't think you can judge a makers work based solely on the way he chooses to market his work. Lots of knives sell at auctions .. either at knife show autions or off of special knife web auctions. It is just another tool to put my work out to the public.

Regards
 
This is obviously wrong, but I am one of those that tends to not take the work of makers that I see on ebay very seriously. That's because I don't take ebay very seriously.

If I were to buy a knife on ebay for $450.00 and see a similar knife on the makers site for $350.00 I would think that I was not a very smart shopper. This is not something I would hold against the maker. This was my own poor judgement on what something was worth.

The other example causes more of a problem for the maker. If I won a knife on ebay with a bid of $350.00 and saw it on the makers site for $450.00 I would certainly not be unhappy, but it would make me think. What I would be thinking is, if this knife could be sold for a price that much under the asking price on the makers site then so could all the rest. Especially if this knife had a reserve or was purchased at the buy now price. From that point on I would expect to pay less for this makers knives than was listed on his/her site. The maker would in effect be setting the marketable value of his/her knives by what he/she was getting on ebay.
 
Makers reputations cover a lot of area.

We were talking about acutions on another forum last week.

One maker said he disliked auctioneers and dealers because they worked in the "discounted" market.

It was pointed out to him as it has been talked about here. That usually when a knife is sold at auction it is the seller who sets the price, not the auctioneer. So as a maker if you are upset with the price, do not get irritated with the auctioneer.

Most makers, understand that once they have sold the knife they no longer have any say as to what happens to it. Obviously no one likes to see the knvies sell for below retail...especially the seller! After all that is the person taking the loss.

Another suggestion I made to this maker was. If you see the knife selling for penny's on the dollar..then buy it, clean it up and re-sell it. If it is a $1,000 knife and you can buy it for $400. You can clean it up (if need be) and sell it to a good customer for $600. That of course is just an example.

As for makers selling their knives directly on Ebay. For new makers this may be a good way to get a lot of free exposure. As the custom market is probably no familiar with the maker and his pricing...yet.

I do agree with the comment about the maker getting their own web site and listing the knives there. The problem is traffic to the web site. For those of us with web sites you know those first 6-12 months can be slow, as far as traffic is concerned.

For me personally, I do not view Ebay as a "main" outlet for knife makers. I go there looking for "bargains" on knives of established makers.

Since makers have no say to what happens to knives (and the prices they sell them for in the aftermarket). I don't think auctions or Ebay hurt a makers reputation .

What I feel is much more damaging, is a maker discounting their knives prior to the sale. Example, Sunday 2PM at any custom knife show across the country. There are always makers who can be found discounting their knives.

Let me preface what I am going to write with this, I have been a full time custom knife dealer for the last 7 1/2 years. I have no other income...no I did not retire from the Army (a common misconseption, people assume once your in the military for awhile...you just stay in till you retire).

So I understand just how difficult it can be to make a living solely by selling custom knives.

That being said, I have always told the makers I work with to never discount their work to retail customers. Even if you didn't sell a single knife at the show.

For several reasons:

1) The person who bought the knife will tell. Even though they swear they won't. They will tell everyone they got a deal on ABC Maker's XYZ knife.

Customers who bought the knife previously at retail price are going to be irritated. They don't care you had a bad show. They dealt with you in good faith and you betrayed that faith. Those who put a fair amount of stock in that "Faith" will more than likely never buy another knife from that maker.

2) If you give a person a discount the first time, they will expect it from then on. So now you will have to deal with that problem.

3) As a dealer if I am working with a maker and I find out they are discounting knives 1 at a time (after I had to make a minimum purchase of 5-10 at a time to get a discount). Once I find this out, I now feel I too can get a discount for one knife at a time. The maker just lost some more sales.

As a maker, you and only you are responsible for the pricing of your knives. If you feel you are going to have to discount some at the end of a show because the prices are a little high. The discount the knives before the show opens.

It is much better to sell several at a "discounted" price during the course of the show, then to lower your prices at the end of the show.

Then you have customers showing the knife off to their friends. Telling them what a great price the knife was. Then hopefully pointing that friend to your table.

You can always go up on prices, but it is very difficult to drop them.

I was once asked by a maker when it was time to raise his prices. My answer was "When all you take home is your table cover".

There is nothing wrong with knives left over at the end of the show. This is paricularly true if you have a web site.

The maker then takes them home and puts them up for sale on the web. Gaining even more exposure for their work.

What it comes down to is that the maker is ultimatley responsible for their business. Smart business decisions will help establish the maker and give them longevity in the custom knife business.

The maker has to keep their part of the bargain with their clients.

Most of us who have been involved with custom knives for awhile know there are makers who's knives are sought after in the aftermarket. There are also those who do not hold their value in the aftermarket.

From a purely business perspective, if I were a knife maker I would look at what makes knives sought after in both the primary and secondary markets. Usually there is a combination of things that create these collectibles.
While its true that it is very difficult to exactly replecate a successful business model. Each of these models has elements that can be utilitzed by the smart business person. To create their own successful model.

As it is with corporate America. It is the persons name that is on the product. Who is responsible for the success or failiure of a company.
 
Ebay is nothing but an electronic market place. A relatively new concept, but nothing new in principle. Its like a show where you come and put up a table, but the show spans the globe instantly and never closes. Nothing more nor less. I know people running entire businesses now using Ebay as a market place. There is nothing wrong with selling knives or anything else there, but like a big show, you have to expect that all kinds of price points and quality levels will be available to the buyer.

I don't understand the "auction price" issue. You can put stuff up for real auction on ebay, but it doesn't force you to do it. You can set a price (or minimum price) which can certainly be the same as on your own web site. If someone offers that price, you sell it, first come first served like your web site, etc. Nothing prevents you from using Ebay as just another place to show off your knives or any other wares. Don't dismiss it! Its a valuable too.
 
Ron,

eBay is a giant city, with quality and trash side-by-side. It's also a reality check for some knives.

I think the knives you make and the prices you ask would be a good target for eBay. You offer a perfect combination of quality and style and price point that would make you stand out. You DON'T have to sell them for anything less than you normally do. For all the reasons Les mentioned.

One thing that will ensure you to hold prestige is to take the time to learn HTML and take good pictures. Sure you can type in your descriptions and add pics to the lousy eBay server, but that's what the masses do. To separate yourself, you NEED to show you are quality. Your listing is as vital as your website, in terms of presence. Having said that don't overdo it either. And no "L@@K" descriptions! ;)

And just as Tony mentioned, linking TO your website creates visibility you wouldn't get otherwise.

I say go for it.

Keith: There are probably only 1 in 100 REAL good listings for knives on eBay. You are, undoubtably frustrated by the lousy other 99. I find it's worth the search, many times over. You don't take eBay seriously? That's like saying in the late eighties you don't take MicroSoft seriously. Right now eBay is THE most successfull business on the internet (besides porn) with no peers even close. I'd keep my options open. It's changing the way we do business, and can't be dismissed.

Les: I think I'll read that one over and over and over. Thanks for a valid commentary.

Coop
 
Though I am sure that most of those that sell on ebay are honest, there are enough shysters and liers that I have no interest in taking part. Not taking ebay seriously is definitely a personal thing, but it is the way I feel.

I think my problem with knifemakers on ebay stems from original encounters there. It seemed that whenever I found a knife being sold by a maker it was one that I did not know and that I could find absolutely no information on them anywhere. Rightly or wrongly, that left me with the feeling that top quality knifemakers did not use ebay.
 
Les: I think I'll read that one over and over and over. Thanks for a valid commentary.
(me too Coop :)).

I can see a maker in the early stages of their career using ebay, but as Les points out it would need to be used with discipline keeping a goal in mind that will result in not using ebay for a long period of time.

As far as using it as a collector, I am very wary but have waded in there at times. A couple of months ago I picked up a large Bowie by Ed Caffery. 11+ inch 3 bar composite damascus in perfect condition.
I made a high bid that was way too low the bid took it. Felt like I stole the knife.
 

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Thanks guys for all the posts (alot on all the forums I go to) It`s clearing things up for me and helping me decide if I want to go that route.
I`m not questioning any makers integrity here, I questioning the buyers and would be buyers thoughts on makers doing this, just trying to see if I would get good or bad reports if I was to jump on the E-bay train.
 
It seemed that whenever I found a knife being sold by a maker it was one that I did not know and that I could find absolutely no information on them anywhere. Rightly or wrongly, that left me with the feeling that top quality knifemakers did not use ebay.

The "top quality knifemakers" don't need to be on Ebay because they have all the business they can handle (or want) beating a path to their door. Its the other 95% that might find Ebay a valuable outlet. You are right though that there is fraud, but it gets weeded out pretty quickly if people report on one another both on ebay and on other specialty forums like BFC. Developing a personal relationship, via email, is an important part of any larger deal (what makes large depends on the item) I might find myself contemplating. If a seller won't enter into a dialog, you can pass on the item..

Also agree that great pictures are the key to any presentation of items such as knives. Serious sellers invest in decent photo setups. Knives are relatively easy as they are relatively small items. With decent digital cameras these days under $400, you could completely equip yourself for decent knife photography for the Internet for $500 or less. That's a pretty small investment as such things go. How much does it cost to go to a show?
 
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