A new forge and questions about the Ellis forge

SBranson

SBranson

Joined
Oct 29, 2006
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I have been using a locally made forge but have just sold it. It was a 2 burner design with the burners in the top blasting straight down. I didn't like the hot spots it created and unless I treated it like a blow torch, it wasn't great for heat treating. I added a muffle tube but that was hard to control the temperature in.

I eventually put a small "kwansit hut" style cover inside the forge to keep the heat off the work but it has burnt up and I don't really want to get into that cycle as it tends to create uneven heat.
thermocouple_1.jpg


So... I have been looking at two options.. First is to buy a welder and make my own but in the end that'll be expensive as getting materials in Canada is darn difficult. The second option, what I'm leaning towards, is Ellis's forge. In the end this is a single out lay of cash and less than the first option.

Darren Ellis has only the 6" in stock and I was wondering how that works for those who own it. I found that with the muffle tube set up that the knife sucked the heat and it required constant control to keep the temperature steady for HT'ing. Will I have the same problems?

I am also interested in the Riverside vertical forge but I think with that I am not getting all the parts so I would have to place a second expensive order to get what I needed to get running.

I will eventually get a welder and do a dedicated HT forge but until then I need something that'll do it all.

I like the Chiles too but I do not like the direct heat. Any other forges out there that would suit my wants?

I also like the Little Johnny forge but I'm not sure about shipping to Canada and doesn't this fire the blast straight down in the middle? How does this one deal with hot spots.

And finally, venturi or blown? I like the convenience of the venturi as I don't have to source a blower but can I control the temp of the venturi Ellis forge enough for precise HT'ing? (I have a thermocouple)

Thanks!
 
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I cannot comment on other forges as I elected to go with the Ellis forge to start with. The forge has held up well despite my attempt to destroy it with super heats. I finally got a thermocouple and started using the forced air and after relining the forge it holds a steady heat...more than adequate for steel appropriate forging temps and HT.

The only thing I had to do was switch to a larger propane tank. The smaller ones would start to freeze followed by a drop in pressure and temperature.

The heat is even within the forge and a really nice reducing flame can be easily tuned in.

Other forges may be just as good...I have no way of knowing.
 
What are you looking for thats expensive? I built my own and it wasnt that expensive at all. I am currently building another one out of a propane tank, the only parts that were of any cost was the hoses and fittings for the burner itself. I used a fireclay mix for my first one but Im going to get koawool for my new one. I thought I would have to order it from the states but I found a place in Ontario that sells it and most of the other supplies I need.
 
Where's the place in Ontario?

The cost of the welder, the burner, the inswool and a castable floor, regulator and hoses...
Most of this comes from the US (unless your Ontario connection works out) so there's the shipping charge on that.
The welder alone is the cost of the Ellis forge or even more if I got the one I really want. :p
 
I don't know about up in Canada but I went to a local refractory company that dose all the local industrial work, the do boilers and furnaces and what have.
They were the single best experience i have had dealing with forges of any sort and there capabilities were out of sight. The prices made me think about resale as it was very very cheap! You might have someone like that up there.


I used a 8 inch piece of flue pipe for the small forge and its working well, the small inside keeps a very even heat. Even if I bought one of Zollers Z burners I could build it for under 100 bucks.

Now its not the biggest or best forge, but if I had to do it again the changes would be minor.
 
I bought a Darren Ellis 8 inch vertical forge about two years ago. Its been great. You get the supplies to finish the inside of the forge with instructions. Its pretty simple. Just let it dry out well before you fire it up as per instructions. If you get a forced air forge, you will have to get a blower for it. Mine is single burner, but its well enough for the forge.
 
SBranson said:
Where's the place in Ontario?

The cost of the welder, the burner, the inswool and a castable floor, regulator and hoses...
Most of this comes from the US (unless your Ontario connection works out) so there's the shipping charge on that.
The welder alone is the cost of the Ellis forge or even more if I got the one I really want. :p
Click to expand...

This in Ontario
http://www.pshcanada.com/index.htm

They are distributors for Thermal Ceramics
You can get Bricks, Insulative wool, fibre board, Satanite...whatever I wanted.
http://www.pshcanada.com/kilnbuild&repair.htm

If they don't have it, they will order it.


Hose and regulators, I would get at a local welding shop, Praxair or the like.
 
I was talking about Euclid kilns, I actually got there from the PSH site hehe.
 
SBranson said:
Where's the place in Ontario?

The cost of the welder, the burner, the inswool and a castable floor, regulator and hoses...
Most of this comes from the US (unless your Ontario connection works out) so there's the shipping charge on that.
The welder alone is the cost of the Ellis forge or even more if I got the one I really want. :p
Click to expand...

You can get a brand new Harbor Freight Welder for only $99 now on sale. Nothing you can build a car with but EXCELLENT for around the shop projects. IT IS AMAZING FOR THE $$!!
 
jll346 said:
You can get a brand new Harbor Freight Welder for only $99 now on sale. Nothing you can build a car with but EXCELLENT for around the shop projects. IT IS AMAZING FOR THE $$!!
Click to expand...

Last time I checked they don't ship to canada
 
Thanks for the leads and tips guys. It's good to have some Canadian resources.

I have family in the States and it's funny to me when I read or hear comments like this:
I don't know about up in Canada but I went to a local refractory company that dose all the local industrial work...
Click to expand...

Maybe it's not true of Ontario so much or maybe even Alberta but man it is tough to find anything up here. I tried to get some Houghton K & G type quench oil and there was only one 5gal. bucket of the K west of Ontario and they wanted over $120 to ship it to me. To get the G type the closest was 2800 miles away in Brampton. :p

Anyway. I am leaning toward making my own now having some good resources in Canada to choose from. Thanks!!!
 
There may not be a big variety of industry there, but i thought with all those pot making hippy types you would have more supplers.

Try the yellow pages under - pottery supply
That's how I found PSH

Refractory is also a category, but not too common.
 
And finally, venturi or blown? I like the convenience of the venturi as I don't have to source a blower but can I control the temp of the venturi Ellis forge enough for precise HT'ing? (I have a thermocouple)
Click to expand...

Stuart, I'm giving this thread a bump. Last winter I built my 2x72 grinder, and this year I'm going to make a new forge. I'm either going to make a 2 burner venturi or a single burner forced air. The last couple days I've been leaning towards forced air. I'll probably buy a burner kit, insulwood, and refactories all from Darren Ellis. From the reading I've done I think the temperature will be easier to control with the blown forge. Also with the blown forge there is the opportunity to make it PID controlable (Stacey has plans for one here on BF).
I'd like to hear some opinions too as I'll be sending out an order in the next week.
Bruce
 
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