A New Sheath For a Bird and Trout-I'd like you opinon

Daniel Rohde

Daniel Rohde

Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
1,050
I just finished this Bird and Trout, I'm really happy with it but would like to know what you think of this sheath, and what I could/should be doing better?

This is 12-14oz Harness leather from Tandy leather Right hand Belt Carry.
This is it before stitching:
23936292274_a0a9d738e7_b.jpg


I'm drill my holes and I had trouble with keeping the stitches accurate on the back
24538472486_78bee69de4_b.jpg


24456257352_b75745916a_b.jpg


Daniel Rohde
 
I don`t think it looks bad. And even though I am still learning I can give a little advise. I found the key to keeping your stiches straight is to first get your edge straight and clean. I use sandpaper for this. Then mark your stitching line using your edge as a guide. Using either winged dividers or an adjustable stitching groover. With a stitching line in place you can then use whatever method of marking your holes. Also, and this is just my preference but I would not have used such thick leather for a Bird and Trout model. Hope this helps and keep on posting pics of your work.
 
I think it looks great. And I've done the same thing drilling. I pay attention to the front where the action is, but get a little sloppy on the angle I might be drilling. I had one where I did a double stitch, the front was perfect, but the back looked like I was having a seizure while drilling. The key is just keeping it level. I usually use a block and now try to keep the item in the same position on the block no matter how much I may rotate during the process.

I also started out using heavier leather. But have decided I have more flexibility with lighter weights. If I need more stiffness, there are many methods to add that.

Keep posting your work. I love to see the skill and creativity of others.
 
Thanks for the feed back guys!

So what do some of you drill with? The drill bits seem to make the edges of the hole rise funny, does anyone use nailss or something? Maybe a better way to do this?

I really would like to have used 8-9oz wickett leather but haven't been able to justify buying half a side and can't get it in smaller peices, suggestions for Leather? I agree that this is a bit thick for a bird and trout.

I have been using a stitch groover and stitch wheel for keeping the holes lines up fine I just messes my angles up when drilling.

Still allot to learn and I'll keep plugging away at it,

DR....
 
I still just use my smallest drill bit in a tabletop drill press. Many argue the a nail, needle, or something smooth is better because it burnishes at the same time. But for the thread I use, it's hard enough to stitch even with material removed, especially with thicker projects.

For most of my items, I glue, sand smooth for a strait line, then use a groover to make the line. Then an overstitch wheel to make marks, then a sharpie to make them more visible (bad eyes). And like I mentioned before, instead of moving the item around on my overdrill block, I now move the entire block around when needed and keep the project in the same position on the block. That helps having wonky spacing on the back. I usually have to wear a headband light also so I can ensure the bit hits the exact spot.
 
Are you using a hand drill or a drill press?

I can see where with a hand drill, the exit holes could be all over the place.

Using a drill press, I am able to get the holes lined up nicely. On any sheath other than a pancake/stacked sheath, I found that I need to put a block of wood (other than the sacrificial board) under the sheath to keep the edge flat/level. If the sheath is tilted, the exit holes are not directly under the entrance holes, leaving the exit holes too much closer to the edge. If the sewing section is not exactly level, your top and bottom holes don;t line up just right. I really screwed up the first tube sheath I made that way and have "kinda screwed up" a few more when my "leveling board" wasn't "just right".
 
I'm using a drill press. But when you have an uneven project, if you move it around, each hole can be at a slightly different angle. Because of my eyesight, I find it necessary to rotate different areas so I can see the mark properly. When doing a bunch of holes at one time, my eyes start playing tricks on me and create optical illusions for exact placement.
 
I like the leather from Hide House, my last purchase was economy Veg. Dbl. shoulder. Seems to be just as good as the premium leather only with out the edges trimmed.
John S.
 
The leather you've used seems to be extremely nappy and rather beat up before you even started. As for where to get leather, I agree with darkmatter. After buying from Hidehouse, I'll never buy from Tandy again. I also buy double shoulders rather than sides, it might be something for you to consider.
As for my opinions on how to improve, I'll start by asking what thread you are using? It looks really thick especially for that project. I know many of us that hand stitch use Ritza Tiger Thread. I too would suggest cleaning your edge up a bit more, though I don't think it is the issue in your backside walkabouts. I use my HF 1x30 with an 80 grit belt that I use only for leather. Just use quick light passes to help ensure you aren't burning the leather. I also agree the leather is too thick for this project but that has already been discussed. I am one for drilling holes with a needle. Though many suggest doing this without turning the press on, I prefer to "drill" with the needle. It seems to wander less that way. I found the drill bits pulled pieces of wood, or whatever you use for a backer, into the hole. As others have mentioned, use a backer block to level out the piece to guide drilling. A lot of guys cut a notch in a wood block for the loop to fit through, so the piece is oriented the same the whole time. This isn't a perfect system though, as I'm sure you've noticed that taco style sheaths as a rule are thicker on the spine side than the welt. On the belt loop, I'm with Paul on rivets. I would have also tried to skive off some of the nap, and also to thin the leather down at the end of the loop. I have switched to doing the loop as a separate piece so I can keep the whole sheath grain side out. Lining the sheath would also solve this problem, but in this case would compound the thickness issues.

Chris
 
Thanks for your input guys! I do really appreciate ALL your replys and advice, I new my sheath wasn't perfect but now I'm thinking it allot further away than anticipated:D

So may I ask why thinner leather would be "better"?

I would really like to try lining a sheath(I guess I'll just have to order some leather for that two;...recommendations for lining leather?) Are there some good tutorials about lining sheaths?

I used artificial sinew for stitching(double layered) but will get some of that "Ritza Tiger Thread" to try. What are some recommended needles for hand sewing?

I have a wood lathe and was thinking I could make a leather edge burnisher, if that's possible what wood should I use?
 
1450115587082_6206329139_d5a5a478_zps1j5wp2sc.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

Drill press stitching.
 
The only reason I can think of for thinner leather is specifically bulk. No need to add more chunk than necessary. There are many ways to "harden" leather so you don't need the bulky thickness. I've made plenty of chunky sheaths myself, with more leather than knife. If you are doing a shaped item, I also glass or roll the leather prior to working. This compresses the air cells and makes the material more dense.

One method that I use is to line the flesh side. Usually use a thin lambskin mostly pre embossed. The contact cement to laminate the two adds some great stiffness.

You can also wet and bake in a warm oven. The fast drying from wet state can make the leather anywhere from a little stiff, to as hard as plastic. Use this method carefully. I've destroyed many projects by getting distracted and cooking too long.

But in most cases, I just air dry from wet mold state. Give it a good day or two. Usually this is sufficient for both sheaths and holsters. If good warm weather, the best happy medium is air drying in sunlight. Best of both worlds.

Don't remember if I mentioned before that a nice solid area covering stamp (like a basket weave pattern) also helps. This adds density like glassing. I prefer a weaved pattern for that extra density.

My current ccw owb holster is carrying a heavy 1911 45 and has been in service for over two years (used daily). Still has great retention, and it's an open top shorty style, so it's not exactly a lot of leather. Probably more gun showing than actually inside holster. Leather was just discount Tandy 8-9oz shoulder cut. I used a combination of leather compression, deep basket weave on front, lambskin lined back, and a slow air dry from a very wet state while molding and boning.

Just keep working. Each one will be better than the last. But will say that if my tenth sheath or holster looked as good as yours, I'd be a very happy guy.
 
Makael said:
1450115587082_6206329139_d5a5a478_zps1j5wp2sc.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

Drill press stitching.
Click to expand...

Nice. I absolutely love stacked leather. One of my favorite styles. Here's one I made for my ZT 0180. It's nowhere near as nice as yours, but it works. For mid to large blades, I like to embed Chicago Screws for the attachment. That way you can quickly change it from a clip, to a loop, to a drop rig, etc. Kind of Lego like functionality.

mtto0.jpg
 
Daniel Rohde said:
Thanks for your input guys! I do really appreciate ALL your replys and advice, I new my sheath wasn't perfect but now I'm thinking it allot further away than anticipated:D
Click to expand...

You're doing just fine, don't let opinions or even constructive criticism make you feel otherwise.

I agree again with what has already been said on the thickness. Too thick of leather just adds unnecessary bulk and just doesn't bend correctly for smaller projects.
People use calf skin, lamb skin, deer skin, and others for lining. I have only began experimenting with the skill myself and just ordered some 2-3oz veg tan with my last order. Seriously, give Hidehouse a call.
Most recommend harness needles for sewing. I found some size 2 crewel needles in the sewing department that work excellent for me for a fraction of the price.

I believe Lignum Vitae is the most desired for a burnisher. Dave would be the man to ask as his burnisher is even chucked up in his lathe.

Chris
 
Salolan said:
You're doing just fine, don't let opinions or even constructive criticism make you feel otherwise.

I agree again with what has already been said on the thickness. Too thick of leather just adds unnecessary bulk and just doesn't bend correctly for smaller projects.
People use calf skin, lamb skin, deer skin, and others for lining. I have only began experimenting with the skill myself and just ordered some 2-3oz veg tan with my last order. Seriously, give Hidehouse a call.
Most recommend harness needles for sewing. I found some size 2 crewel needles in the sewing department that work excellent for me for a fraction of the price.

I believe Lignum Vitae is the most desired for a burnisher. Dave would be the man to ask as his burnisher is even chucked up in his lathe.

Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris! I'm not discouraged, I'll get it just like everything else, it takes practice.

So with the lining do you have to sew the longing in or is "gluing" it with contact cement okay?

Could I but two 4oz peices of leather and glue them together flesh side to flesh side and use that without sewing them together?

Thanks for the advise everyone!
 
Nice work here Daniel. Also lots of great advice. I'd stay away from harness leather for a sheath. I've used lots of it over the years and like it but not for sheaths. Makes great reins, straps for rifle scabbards, pack saddle etc. Too much oil and tallows in it. I agree with the weight as discussed and use 7/8 oz for the vast majority of sheaths and 8/10 oz for larger pancakes such as the one I built for you. That was 8-10 oz Wickett and Craig from the Hide House. Double shoulders are probably the way to go at this stage if justifying a side is difficult. I definitly think their premium double shoulders are worth the difference in price. Just cleaner. If ya get a chance check out the thread I did on my Hide House visit a while back kind of fun.

Before stitching you could peen those burr rivets a bit to make em smoother. Also there is a tool very much like a Tandy rivet cap setter but sized for these that you can use to dome the other side a little to make them very smooth. Different tool than the rivet setter.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Dave! what "type" of wickett and Craig leather do you like?(ENGLISH BRIDLE, OILED LATIGO, TOOLING/HOLSTER/CARVING?)

Why get it from HideHouse over ordering directly from Wickett and Craig?

I'll give them a call(there website isn't very good) what would a premium double shoulder probly cost?( just so I have an idea)

Do you usually like to buy the leather color you will want in the finished sheath or buy a lighter color and dye it?
 
I always have a side of chestnut english bridle on hand but not for sheaths. For sheaths, holsters, rifle scabbards, martingales etc its russet saddle leather. I have a long standing business relationship with Hide House and buy lots of different leather from them. Almost all my chap leathers come from them. Also all my Herman Oak that I use. So mostly its consolidating shipping charges probly more than anything else. Their shipping is very quick, usually just a couple of days which is helpful too cause I'm always behind. I intensely dislike dyeing sheaths and almost won't. I might dye 1 out of a thousand. Last one I dyed for a friend cost him about a $75 bottle of Single Malt on top of the sheath. OK call it a bribe. If ya want color buy colored leather.

Don't know on the cost of a double shoulder. Call and ask I guess.
 
By the way, on my last stacked sheath, I think I used 4 different leather weights (between top, trim, laminated back, skived ramp, strap, and welt). Sure thinner pieces can be made with a little skiving or sanding, but I'm not that good. The sheath above has 7 layers at the trim level. [emoji16]. So when I talk about avoiding "bulk", I say that very subjectivity by the type, function, and design desired.

And since my projects are just hobby, I don't buy pre-colored leather. It seemed cheaper and more open to options by putting the money into plain leather and a few dye colors. A small bottle of dye will go a long way, so I could afford a dozen different colors. But after using most if them, I still gravitate to a favorite 2-3 colors.

But I must say that even though I like to share my work and/or process, I could only dream of the skills and resources of Horsewrite's, I'm a total novice (even if I get totally OCD about different projects/hobbies). But it is sure fun to see his projects of his, (as well as so many others), and learn from all the skills that so many people here are willing to impart voluntarily. There are so many skills and different industries that people are not willing to share freely because of a small community and the possibility of new competition. But I've found the gun, knife, and leather craft community is amazingly generous and giving of both time and money. We have such an amazing resource here.....thanks Spark et.al.!!!!

And to the "Sheath's & Such" specific MOD's, thank you for allowing some of the threads to spin occasionally, because I think some pretty great ideas have come from such. Not always, but enough. [emoji38][emoji56]
 
I'd use a 7-8 or 8-9 oz. leather for a sheath that size. I get double shoulders that average 12 sq. ft. from Thoroubred Leather in Kentucky. Very nice leather at a reasonable price. Tell them you want the same leather that they sell to Treestump Leather. If I'm hand stitching I drill the holes with a drill press. I've made up a block that is 2 pieces of wood about 1 1/4 " apart mounted on another piece of wood. The spacing allows the belt loop to nestle in there while the sheath body sits level and allows for straight drilling. I'd also suggest either stitching your belt loop or using the smaller "Speedy Rivets" that will give you a neater job than the big copper rivets & burrs. All that being said, it looks like you're off to a pretty good start.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top