A Nice Chat with the Canadian Border Services Agency

Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
9
My reading of Canada's knife regs makes it pretty clear to me that A/O folders (like the nice new Kershaw Spec Bump that I recently purchased on eBay) are legal to import into, and possess in, Canada. They don't open via a switch or button on the knife handle, and they don't open via gravity or centrifugal force. So I was plenty surprised when I got a letter from the CBSA's Prohibited Importations Unit telling me that my new knife was being held by them because it will open via centrifugal force.

My first step was to call Kershaw and have them fax me a Canada Trade decision that declares that similar Kershaw knives do not fall under the Prohibited Weapons category because of the reasons I note above. Armed with this, I telephoned the officer in charge of my knife, who told me that the whole problem is that a significant portion of the folding knives that pass through his office are adjusted at the pivot loosely enough that a snap of the wrist will extend and lock the blade. He said that he understands that they aren't meant to open in such a fashion ("Why would anyone want to crack their wrist to open a knife when there're all these fancy mechanisms to do it for them?") but that if it will open that way, he can't let it pass. He further opined that it's really dicey for a Canadian customer to order a folder via the 'Net unless he can be sure that the seller will adjust the knife beforehand so that this won't happen.

The officer (a very nice fellow to talk to) says that I can either abandon the knife; appeal (which I doubt will go anywhere; if he can flick it open now, whoever arrives to render judgement will be able to do the same); or go through the hassle and expense of finding a bonded carrier to re-export it.

I've already got another one en route to a P.O. Box somewhere south of here that'll be hand-delivered to me, but it's getting expensive, you know? I also phoned Kershaw today to explain to them the issues some Canadian customers may be having, and how they may wish to consider minimising the problem.

And, by the way, the Kershaw Blur that I have in my pocket everywhere I go will open with a flick of the wrist: a hard enough flick to damn near dislocate it, but it'll open.
 
Unfortunately, that view is consistant with caselaw. You should be sure that the pivot is very tight when inspected so it can't be flicked open. That's a problem with some knives, like an Elishewitz Phantom, where the pivot is adjustable without a key.
The law is an ass, sometimes.
 
HJK said:
Unfortunately, that view is consistant with caselaw. .

Yes, it seems quite clear on my after-the-fact research. Obviously, after-the-fact is the wrong way around, but I thought I was perfectly safe since I'd bought my Blur from Knifezone.ca; now I see that they don't sell the Blur or Bump any longer.
 
I have seen the Kershaw Bump for sale in a shopping mall in Calgary (about a week ago), so someone is importing them legally. Unfortunately, they were selling for $400.
 
salamander said:
I have seen the Kershaw Bump for sale in a shopping mall in Calgary (about a week ago), so someone is importing them legally. Unfortunately, they were selling for $400.

That's a nice profit, eh? Damn! I paid C$140, shipped, for my second one, which is safely in the country and will be in my pocket just after Christmas. Then all I have to do is see how my appeal went on the first one, and then return it the States if I lose, and sell it if I win.

I think I'll buy myself a nice big 100%-legal fixed blade like a Timberline Zambesi with the proceeds.
 
Thanks for this report. Now, I've read enough similar reports, that I will not order similar knives from the U.S. In fact, why order any knife from the U.S., if it's available here in Canada? With the exchange, taxes, Canada Post customs charge, maybe duty, plus the several weeks it takes to get through customs, it's not worth it to me. Besides....support your local economy, EH? :D
 
Glad to help.

But, let's see. The knives I like aren't available anywhere near where I live, so I wouldn't be supporting my local economy, but someone else's. There's no duty on knives made in the USA, tax is the same as if I bought in Canada, shipping is barely different cross-border v. in-country, and USPS Global Express shipments usually get to me (including customs delays) in five business days. And the US price for a Kershaw Spec Bump is about C$140, v. the C$400 price quoted above. If I could buy locally and spend a few more bucks doing so, I'd be cool with that, but that's ridiculous.

If I can't get the CBSA straightened out, I'll continue with having the knives walked across the border to me.


Pocketknife said:
Thanks for this report. Now, I've read enough similar reports, that I will not order similar knives from the U.S. In fact, why order any knife from the U.S., if it's available here in Canada? With the exchange, taxes, Canada Post customs charge, maybe duty, plus the several weeks it takes to get through customs, it's not worth it to me. Besides....support your local economy, EH? :D
 
Camillus cuda maxx stiletto:

$ 304.87 + 9.50shipping (swordepot) Total=314.37
$319.21 + $8.99shipping (knifezone) Total= 328.2

181.25us+4.99us= (New Graham)*conversion total = 217.20
189.99 us+20.00 (1sks) * conversion total= 244.94

I think it still worth it.
 
Yeap, I can relate. I had to deal with the Law and Order: Prohibited Importations Unit back here in Toronto this October. What didn't they like? Well, apparently they managed to flick open my BM AFCK and...wait for it...Spyderco Cricket! Yes, that's right, a Cricket was called an "illegal weapon" and ceized after the inspection. Wow.

I asked them if they really DID flick it open, because I import at least half a dozen Crickets a year to customize with exotic wood scales and some fancy filework and sell. They said yes, they can flick it. I tried it on the 2 I had at the time, and didn't manage, so I asked if it could be demostrated. They laughed (actually had a nice long hearty laugh) and said no, it's "not a public facility", so I'd have to take their word for it. When I immediately inquired about my word being sufficient to release the knife if I swore I wasn't going to sit on someone's face and slash with the Cricket at their neck for 2-3 hrs to kill them, they laughed more and louder, and said no, my word is not sufficient. Kind of insulting, if you ask me.

I still don't know if it would be possible to arrange for a tribunal like in the CITT records found online, where I can see my accuser, and see the committee making the decision. I could also see if the knife was tempered with to make it flickable. I won't go as far as accure our customs of targeting things, but they never ever in many many years target a cheapie folder, only things US$90 and up. I guess they wanted to keep the whole package the last time, which is why they went after the Cricket too.

Anywho, long story short, I shipped the two knives back by Purolator to the store I got it from in USA. I had to get the Bill of Landing from Purolator, fill it, mail it to Customs, call them a few days later to check if the package was re-packaged and ready to go, it was, then call Purolator again, arrange for pickup. This in itself was VERY "fun" exercise:

<Dialling Purolator>
"Hello, I need you to pick up a package at customs."
"OMG! We can't do that! Oh noes, that would be illegal! KNIVES? OMG!"
"Calm down. The customs have the package ready, all the documentation, and they are READY for you to officially pick it up and ship it back to sender."
"OMG! OH NO! No, no, no! We don't do THAT!"
<Beep. Hang Up. Dial Tone>

<Dialling Purolator>
"Hello, I need you to pick up a package at customs."
"Where in the customs?"
"The PIU warehouse here in Toronto."
"What's in the package?"
"A pair of pocket knives."
"Oh, no, we can't pick stuff up at customs warehouse like that, you have to call them and ask them to call us."
"Umm, no. I got the Bill of Landing from you, the customs packaged the tools and the package is now ready to be picked up. They told me that I must arrange for pickup with you now.'
"Oh, no, we can't just pick stuff up at a customs warehouse."
<Beep. Hang Up. Dial Tone>

<Dialling Purolator>
Me: "Hello, I need to arrange for a pickup at a customs warehouse here in Toronto."
Him: "Okay, sir. What is the phone number there?" <I give it>
Him: "Oh, the customs warehouse at <gives exact address>?"
Me: "Yeap, that's the one."
Him: "And what is the phone number where it is going?"
Me: "It's going back to the sender, and the phone number is <give the phone number>"
Him: "Okay, that package is going to <reads back the exact address of the store I got the knives from>"
Me: <more than a little creeped out by that>"Yeah, that's the place."
<After that I give them the credit card number, and they assure me the box will be picked up by 5pm that same day, and am given the tracking number. And the box was picked up that same day at 4pm, and delivered a day later (expensive)>

So, as you can see, doing something as simple as scheduling a pickup from the location they KNOW (USPS Global Express gets handled by Purolator after it passes that same customs warehouse) was a chore that took about 30 minutes of dealing with bleating morons. Anyways, the package was delivered, but then lost in the store (signed for, then misplaced). The whole thing was kind of odd and lacked closure. I still to this day don't know if the store actually found the box. But they were good people and refunded the value of the blades, so all turned out well, and I've already received my holiday present that I got from their store (Spyderco Dialex's Adventura). But I do make a point of asking them to tighten the pins whenever possible.

But I honestly don't know about assisted opening knives. Did the knife they detain have some kind of a safety like the Scallion, Chive, Boa, etc? Because all of those require you to "unlock" the blade first prior to flicking. If your knife does have something like that, call the customs officer and call his attention to the fact that there are TWO actions, one to unlock the blade, and the other to flick it. On a SOG Flash II, it's also impossible to do it with one hand. And lately, just in case, I have people tighten the knives to tight that they simply cannot be opened, flickng or otherwise, and I adjust them here.

I had a copy of the letter from some government body here in Canada saying that Kershaw SpeedSafe models were fine to import, and assisted opening didn't count towards "ficking". Contacting Kershaw was a good idea, maybe an appeal would work in this case. Although when I appealed two years ago (about a Spyderco Chinook II) I got a distinct impression that it wasn't even read, all I got was a generic letter repeating the same section of the Criminal Code, and that was that. No response to any of the points in my appeal.

Anyways, let us know how it turns out. I did the math on this, and with the amount of purchases I get a year, even if customs take a few knives a year, it's still cheaper to shop from the US than to buy local. Sure there are a few stores that have sales every now and then, but who knows those happen, and on what models. I'd LOVE to purchase knives locally with a slight markup, but when the price is 200-400% higher, I just can't possibly justify it. Even ordering 2 identical knives from 2 sources with shipping and having only one make it would have the same effect price wise as going to a local hunting store.

Anyways, sorry abot the long rumbling. I just wanted to share some of the experience and maybe help with the info a little on how to go about sending your knives back to sender if need be. FedEx should work too, I just didn't try it.
 
cybrok said:

Nothing quite like the relief of having the package arrive without incident, eh? I reveived a Spyderco Dialex Adventura a week or so ago, kept wondering if it would get here with holidays and customs. Whew! :)
 
Centrifugal force is equal and opposite to centripetal force (Newton's third law). It is the tug you feel when you twirl a mass on a string.
 
Centrifugal force is a name we give to Inertia and torque so unphysicist can understand what happen
 
Well, laws should be written specifically, not in the vernacular. If they wrote centrifugal force, somebody should challenge it.
 
speedfan said:
Well, laws should be written specifically, not in the vernacular. If they wrote centrifugal force, somebody should challenge it.

Agreed, I actually think you could win, because centrifugal force don't even exist.
 
Anyone ordered a fixed blade knife from e-bay and never get it. I successfully bid on a Vietnam era Pilots Survival knife at the end of November. The seller told me it was mailed on 8th December. It is coming from the US to Canada and still not arrived. What happens in such cases?
 
Usually, there are not any problems with fixed blades :S except if the handle looks like a brass knuckle.

I don't think the problem was at the customs.
 
cybrok said:
Usually, there are not any problems with fixed blades :S except if the handle looks like a brass knuckle.

I don't think the problem was at the customs.

You were right on the money sir!

Well at long last the item was delivered on Monday. I say 'delivered' but I had to go and pay $10.21 duties and taxes and collect it from the local post office. I did request that he cross 'Gift' which avoids duty, but he marked it 'Other'. Also puzzling is that he told me it was sent on the 8th December, but the declaration signed by him was dated 22nd December, and the Lincoln, Nebraska post office also stamped it 22nd December, as did the franked postal stamp. From there it languished in the post and Canada Customs for a little while and they generated the Canada Border Service Agency certificate on 4th January, and from there 5 days in Canada post to me. I asked if he left it in the trunk of his car or something and then found it with Christmas presents?

He wrote and said 'he would have a word with his shipping person'. He explained he has to mark it 'other' as the post office knows he sells and would be in breach of federal law which is fair enough. He is one of those power sellers.

Also as a further part of the strangeness, the Customs Agency Certificate said 'Knife, other than fixed blade'. It was fixed blade and wasn't examined. I guess they x-ray stuff but still odd as they must have a category 'fixed blade knife'.

Having said all that it is a nice minty item and is marked (he said he didn't think it was) 'Ontario', which is Ontario Knife and Tool (of the USA) and is also dated on one of the flats of the pommel as 10 - 1976. Funny it ends up in Ontario, Canada eh?
 
Back
Top