A question about knock-off's

J

jbib

Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
696
Assuming there is no dumping, is the cost of labor the primary reason for the price variance? Or is cost of material, primarily the blade equally an issue?
 
Well for starters they don't need to spend to develop the product. Then there's no guarantee the steel is as advertised or the heat treatment protocol is followed.

When someone is stealing for profit there's no difference to them if they're stealing from a knife company or stealing from you.
 
A lie is immortal. A lie never dies. Liars know this. Lies attract other Liars. Salesmen know this. They will make more profit with their counterfeits and knock-offs as a result.

CQ and Labor never factor in. Thieves hope you never pull aside the curtain and see who is pulling the levers and strings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMG
Dumping?

Apart from cheaper labor, knockoffs always cheap out wherever they can. Materials, tolerances, finishing, development/design (someone already did that for them). Be it knives, tools, watches, handbags, sunglasses, or cereal. Mass production has lower costs/volume compared to small quantity production, and while the profit margins might be lower for knockoffs, they make up for that in volume.
 
There are many costs of doing business, especially in the US. There are license requirements, regulations, R&D, marketing, waste disposal (again, regulations), labor (wages, benefits and TAXES), materials, overhead such as building maintenance, equipment maintenance, logistics, etc.
Plus, the US companies will pay the knife designers for their designs and fairly compensate all involved. They offer customers a warranty, customer service, etc. All of which cost money and have to be priced in to the product to make a profit and keep the business doors open.

The knockoff companies can bypass most of these expenses. They pay low wages, probably don't pay any benefits and do not have to bother with the regulations and such.
Between the rock bottom cost of labor, limited overhead, cheaper materials, no concern for quality, and little or no regulations to comply with, they are able to slam out products for cheap.

The main problem with this is, it is not ethical and all parties involved in the design, development and marketing are not compensated, and thus their intellectual property is being stolen. Everyone including the designers, the legitimite manufacturers, and the customers are being robbed.
 
Another item I forgot to touch on is that "certain governments" manipulate their currency to keep the value artificially low compared to other countries. This is another reason that things are cheaper (in US dollars) from those places, which is a major factor for why the prices are so low on these knockoffs. Without their governments indirect help, they would not be able to sell these items as cheap as they do.
 
Another factor that might have an impact on the price we pay in the USA is the currency exchange rate.

The Yaun to Dollar ratio is something like 6/1. We don’t pay them a lot but they get paid a lot because of the exchange rate.
 
Folks above have done a good job explaining it but there is no comparing a counterfeit to the real thing. None. Every single thing about them is cheaper, more poorly done, and lesser quality. Saying it’s a wage thing would insinuate that the knives are of equal quality, they aren’t.
 
DustinK said:
Folks above have done a good job explaining it but there is no comparing a counterfeit to the real thing. None. Every single thing about them is cheaper, more poorly done, and lesser quality. Saying it’s a wage thing would insinuate that the knives are of equal quality, they aren’t.
Click to expand...
Like I said, CQ and Labor never factor in.

I also should have mentioned wages directly. Thank you for addressing what I left out.
 
Danke42 said:
Well for starters they don't need to spend to develop the product. Then there's no guarantee the steel is as advertised or the heat treatment protocol is followed.

When someone is stealing for profit there's no difference to them if they're stealing from a knife company or stealing from you.
Click to expand...
R &D! Never considered that.
 
Planterz said:
Dumping?

Apart from cheaper labor, knockoffs always cheap out wherever they can. Materials, tolerances, finishing, development/design (someone already did that for them). Be it knives, tools, watches, handbags, sunglasses, or cereal. Mass production has lower costs/volume compared to small quantity production, and while the profit margins might be lower for knockoffs, they make up for that in volume.
Click to expand...
Excellent points, thanks.
 
chevyrulez1 said:
Another item I forgot to touch on is that "certain governments" manipulate their currency to keep the value artificially low compared to other countries. This is another reason that things are cheaper (in US dollars) from those places, which is a major factor for why the prices are so low on these knockoffs. Without their governments indirect help, they would not be able to sell these items as cheap as they do.
Click to expand...
This is what I meant by dumping, Sir. I agree.
 
chevyrulez1 said:
There are many costs of doing business, especially in the US. There are license requirements, regulations, R&D, marketing, waste disposal (again, regulations), labor (wages, benefits and TAXES), materials, overhead such as building maintenance, equipment maintenance, logistics, etc.
Plus, the US companies will pay the knife designers for their designs and fairly compensate all involved. They offer customers a warranty, customer service, etc. All of which cost money and have to be priced in to the product to make a profit and keep the business doors open.

The knockoff companies can bypass most of these expenses. They pay low wages, probably don't pay any benefits and do not have to bother with the regulations and such.
Between the rock bottom cost of labor, limited overhead, cheaper materials, no concern for quality, and little or no regulations to comply with, they are able to slam out products for cheap.

The main problem with this is, it is not ethical and all parties involved in the design, development and marketing are not compensated, and thus their intellectual property is being stolen. Everyone including the designers, the legitimite manufacturers, and the customers are being robbed.
Click to expand...
Very well explained. Knock offs piss me off for all of these reasons.
 
jbib said:
Assuming there is no dumping, is the cost of labor the primary reason for the price variance? Or is cost of material, primarily the blade equally an issue?
Click to expand...

I have a rather narrow focus when it comes to knives. I only know a few brands.

To address the OPs topic:

There are knock-offs and forgeries . . .and there are acknowledged copies in my view.

Cold Steel makes a really nice copy of Randall's iconic (legendary?) #1 All Purpose Fighter. They make no mention of Randall, but the knife looks really close to the Randall and costs a fraction of the price. It is probably about what the Randall would cost if branded differently. I think the materials and construction are pretty much the same.

On the other hand, there are e-Bay offerings for what are described as a Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 for $50 to $100. A close reading of the offering often shows that the blade steel is 2D. A close look at the pictures shows that there is no frame locking lever. . . .its just a comm on "jackknife" in design and construction.

Often these are openly advertised as CRK knives. Sometimes they are described with the word "Style" to sidestep the issue.
 
jbib said:
Assuming there is no dumping, is the cost of labor the primary reason for the price variance? Or is cost of material, primarily the blade equally an issue?
Click to expand...
The issue is the theft of IP from those who actually spent time, effort, and money developing the original thing that the lazy scumbags decided to steal so they could capitalize on all those things. It's why they're frowned on here.
 
Quiet said:
The issue is the theft of IP from those who actually spent time, effort, and money developing the original thing that the lazy scumbags decided to steal so they could capitalize on all those things. It's why they're frowned on here.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more.

I wonder what percentage of the cost of a new knife is due to the expense of R&D, especially if it's coming from a company that frequently introduces new models?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top