A question about toughness

C

coyotebc

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Jan 26, 2005
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I have only been viewing this sub-forum for a short time, but I have noticed a few threads comparing the HEST to the RC 3.
I started one myself.
One statement that seems to come up in each thread is that the HEST is tougher.
Now being thicker that is probably the case however, I wonder if ESEE has ever done destructive tests on these knives.
It would be interesting to me to see what the difference really is
 
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It'd be interesting, though I doubt you could break the hest, or the RC3 for that matter, with any bare handed use... it'd probably take a cheater bar or a hammer...
 
My favorite bush knife for the last 30 years has been a Wade & Butchers clone of a Marbles Woodcraft knife. It was made probably around 1934.
It is probably slightly thinner then the RC 3 and is made out of softer carbon steel.
I have never worried about breaking this knife and it has never let me down.

Personally I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I could/would break an RC 3 let alone the HEST.

I do have some sharpened pry bars (Scrapyard Regulator TT & Original Dumpster Mutt) so I do have experience comparing the different style of knives.

I just wonder if sometimes we get too caught up in this difference.
 
I think you nailed it right there.
either will do the job, mostly it comes down to which one meets your needs the best.
do you want a thin slicer with a choil so you can choke up for fine work, or a thicker, heavier blade with a slightly longer grip and a dedicated prybar on the other end.
 
Well...I've said it before and I'll say it again...these are two of my favorite knives ever. To me personally they are each a half of the perfect knife and I'd love to see an off-spring...but that's just me personally. So, I am not inclined to destroy them to see which is tougher :) . However the physics are such that the HEST, with steel and heat treat being relatively equal, With it's shorter thicker blade has to be tougher. You may never notice a difference at all in batoning other than the 3 may baton little easier in some woods.

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Sorry for the sloppy pics of the calipers...crappy lighting indoors and raining outside.

HEST

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3MIL

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The strength difference is mainly going to be lateral. I have pried off pieces of fatwood with the HEST where the 3MIL was flexing more than I wanted to push it past. The HEST may have been flexing a bit too but not enough for the eye to catch.

.
 
Mistwalker
I do understand the physics and I stated that as much in my op.
I know if you are like RYP a hardcore adventurer, maybe the difference in toughness might be important.
As an mid 40's guy that simply uses his knives to hunt, fish, camp and hike, I think I am close to using my knives as most people on this site would.
I just don't know if the difference is meaningful to the average user.

If the HEST had the same thickness of blade as the RC 3 does I still would have bought the HEST instead of the RC 3 simply because I liked the handle ergonomics better.

If ESEE has tested this knives to destruction it would be interesting to see for example.
The RC 3 is X% as strong as the HEST when flexed laterally, or it to X lbs of force to break the RC 3 but X lbs to break the HEST
 
coyotebc said:
Mistwalker
I do understand the physics and I stated that as much in my op.
I know if you are like RYP a hardcore adventurer, maybe the difference in toughness might be important.
As an mid 40's guy that simply uses his knives to hunt, fish, camp and hike, I think I am close to using my knives as most people on this site would.
I just don't know if the difference is meaningful to the average user.

If the HEST had the same thickness of blade as the RC 3 does I still would have bought the HEST instead of the RC 3 simply because I liked the handle ergonomics better.

If ESEE has tested this knives to destruction it would be interesting to see for example.
The RC 3 is X% as strong as the HEST when flexed laterally, or it to X lbs of force to break the RC 3 but X lbs to break the HEST
Click to expand...

I do understand your point, and I know we all have to pick our gear based on our expected uses and the realistic expectations of the tools chosen.

For many skinning and processing game, and general camp cutting chores are generally the extent of the tool's use. But I turned 45 yesterday and I regularly spend a good bit of time teaching people how to do more than that with a knife. Granted the 3MIL is one of the knives I use the most...I just had to adapt myself certain aspects of the knife and use it accordingly.

As to whether the difference means much to the average user...from the feedback I've seen I say no. But for the people it does mean something to it means a great deal.
 
I think destruction test are fun to watch but I can't think of any occasion that I could break a mil 3 or HEST. I work for DHS and deploy to crap holes all over the world. I bought a LMF so I could be covered in all scenarios. I have found that it is a bit big though. Kinda hard to play rescuer and look like you are there to help with a 5 or 6 inch blade on your vest. As soon as I can sneak a 3-mil or HEST in the house with "house hold 6" busting me I am all over it.
 
The HEST was designed with urban situations in mind, where prying and probing are expected and considered everyday use where the 3 is onre of a "wilderness" knife where carving and game processing would be more the norm.

Very different theory in the design on the two knives and thats reflected in the toughness.

Sure, the HEST is going to have more lateral toughness due to the grind and the thickness.
 
I will say I am much more trusting of the HEST's point, for doing extensive tipwork. The point on my HEST is just as sharp as it was when it came from the factory.
 
Thanks for the pics Mistwalker. Since we are on the question about point of destruction, I wonder if the area between the bottle opener and the wire breaker would create a weak point or not?

And I second the question of anyone having pics of the H.E.S.T's prybar being used. It would be greatly appreciated. I mean, come on, this could very well be my next knife here people :D - I just showed my wife your pics Mistwalker and said, "this is what I want next", and she said, "that is bad ass". !!!!!!!! Good work buddy.
 
The bottle opener is still 1/8 inch above the grind...so it is still 3/16 thick steel. I think it is likely weaker than it would be without it but still stouter than a longer thinner blade.

I used my pry bar last winter to pry my frozen truck door open but it took both hands so no pics.

Cool bro, glad I could help! :thumbup: It is a bad ass little knife.
 
Would still be interested to know if ESEE did destruction tests, to see what the actual difference is.
 
Rowen does destruction testing, but the only video I've seen out of the factory is the one RAT posted on the Junglas. In that video it was flexed to about 90 degrees before breaking. Rowen confirmed later that in testing they had found that the Junglas could be flexed to about 35 degrees and still go back to true - but any more than that and the blade took a slight "set".
Not sure what the test results would be on any of the smaller knives.
 
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