A question for schrade experts...from a new guy.

A

aza77

Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
268
Hi guys, just to let you know...this is my first post and I am also just learning about knives and all the different brands...so please don't mind my stupidity if I display any.

I currently have a leatherman wave, buck 110, SAK cybertool, and just a few days ago got a schrade sharpfinger 1520 and a schrade senior 80t.

I bought both the Schrades from Kmart (they are the U.S.A. versions) for five dollars each in very yellow clamshell packages (brand new unopened). I opened up the sharpfinger and other than the very fuel like smell, it looks pretty good...however I must say, the build quality and attention to detail is (to my novice eye) not as good as my other knives (sloppy sharpening, sloppy rounding out of the delrin handles). The 80t I have yet to open but can see that there is rust starting to form on the metal parts (non blades). Also, (other than the blades) the knife body itself seems to be not so pristine in its build quality as say a SAK or leatherman tool.

Now here is the question for all you guys...is this how they have been (build quality wise) from the beginning? The models I have were not the last built but probably from a few years earlier (blue packaging). If so, where did the schrade reputation come from, was it the steel used? Or was it the unique design?

Also, I went into a store today and saw a few new Taylor old timers (smaller than the 80t) and looked closely at their build quality and noticed that it seemed to be quite a bit higher than the 80t that i have. I know that a lot of people are mad about the China switch...but are the knives really worse than their american counterparts? From what I saw (with no intention to deride the american ones i own) it seemed that quite a bit more attention to fit and finish was paid to the chinese made knives. So if this is correct and my knives do represent the quality of the american made versions, what if anything is lacking in the chinese versions? Is the steel worse? Are the pieces overall made of cheaper material but just fit better?...Or just finished better?

Now just to let you know, I don't want to buy any chinese knives. I actually will only support american knife companies (or swiss heh heh) but am a very open minded person and want to know what the differences are. I do however fully support japanese cars as they truly are fine pieces of machinery and American car companies should copy them now as they did us many years ago (slight tangent I know).

Thanks for any input you have on this question. I am interested to see the response I get from this if any. I hope none of you are mad at me...if so let me know and we can duel with sharpfingers. :)

Aj
 
I have a sharpfinger that has a very coarse grind on the edge. I think it's a later production; I have an earlier Sharpfinger that's much nicer.

As far as the 8OT, all of mine have been very good quality, including one that was made at the very end of Schrade's lifespan. I wonder about the "rust" on your's. The bolsters are nickel silver and the liners are brass - I doubt that either rusts easily. If your's is very old stock, the blade could be carbon steel and vulnerable to rust or darkening; the later-production 8OT knives are probably stainless blades.

To get an idea of how long your's were sitting around in the K-Mart warehouse, what does the design on the cardboard clampack inserts look like?

Best Wishes,
-Bob
 
nice find aj! welcome to the forum too. like bob, unless its carbon i have no idea what the rust could be. i know when clampacks get old they tend to yellow and get brittle, maybe yours has a crack in it somewhere and something leaked in? just wondering. i have noticed a a slight difference in knives out of the box and knives out of a clampack. personally i like them out of the box, but i do believe its a pshycological thing. well, it is with me anyway, knives seem smoother out of the box to me, but of course jim beam tatse better out of a bottle, rather than wine in a box. oh well, its early, i am sleepy, i kissed a pretty girl last night, so maybe i am useless today! send the knives to me, i will check'em out and use them for a few years and get back to ya! haha! welcome to the forum aj, stick around, u will learn a hell of alot here!!

kris
 
Thanks for the replies guys. The rust is not on the blades, (the packaging is blue and says shrade tough and high carbon steel) it is actually on the old timer logo inlay and the metal pieces inbetween the blades along with a slight bit on the metal pieces on the ends.

I must say the leather holster for the sharpfinger is really nice, and the blades for both the 1520 and the 80t are really nice. Would I be right in saying that build quality is below that of say a victorinox SAK? For example, on the sharfinger....

the old timer logo inlay is not really stamped perfectly and the metal plate itself fits into the blade with some delrin sort of pushed up around the edges to create a small raised ridge.

the metal pieces that attach the blade to the delrin handles also suffer a bit from the raised delrin around the edges.

the sanding of the edges of the delrin are smooth, but not symmetrical...on one side, it apprears that the knife maker sanded down a corner creating a third plane that does not exist on the other side of the knife.

Thanks for the input guys and also, I'm assuming I got a good price on the knives...is that correct?

Aj
 
I can't speak about the Taylor Schrades, as I do not own any. I have owned a few Rough Riders, and found the overall fit and finish not too bad. That being said, I have seen alot of things that look great out of the package only to find that they do not stand up to any real use.

This was the case with the Rough Riders. The quality of the steel is just not there. Nice looking product, but all flash and no substance, IMO.

Also, I have handled many Schrades (Pre-2004), and have found the quality of the product to be very good. I would say that the quality you experienced with your purchases is not indicative of the quality of the pre-closing Schrade product, and as others may have stated, probably an end-of-the-line knife.

I suggest you try another, maybe pick something up off ebay. The ones in the stores may be a little sketchy, most of the old stock has been well picked over.

Glenn
 
Would I be right in saying that build quality is below that of say a victorinox SAK?
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I think Victorinox's strong point is their consistency. When you buy a Victorinox (or Wenger, Benchmade, AG Russell, or Mora) you can be reasonably sure of the quality of the product you'll actually receive. Buying a Schrade (or Camillus, Bear MGC, Spyderco, Case, Gerber) it's more of a toss-up as to whether or not you'll receive the quality you expect.

So overall I'd say that the Victorinox is a slightly higher quality as far as fit-and-finish. Most of the Old Timers are built just as well as a Victorinox; it's the few "stinkers" to got past QC that swing the balance.

Speaking up for Old Timers: among the Schrade product lines I think the OT knives had a relatively consistent quality level, much more so than the Imperial, Schrade, Tradesman, or Apex lineups.

Also, with the carbon steel blades and nickel silver bolsters you could reasonably argue that the Old Timers are superior to Victorinox in the Materials category.

-Bob
 
Bob W,

so high carbon steel is better than stainless? Is my sharpfinger also high carbon steel? The 80t says high carbon on the package but the sharpfinger does not.

Also, why is it better than stainless? And are the new Taylor knives high carbon?
 
so high carbon steel is better than stainless?
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There are so many varieties of carbon and stainless steels that it's impossible to make a blanket statement like that. But in my opinion, med-low-grade carbon steel is superior to med-low-grade stainless, especially if it's heat-treated properly. Historically all knives were carbon steel; stainless wasn't invented until the 20th century.

Is my sharpfinger also high carbon steel?
Click to expand...
It could be either. The Old Timer knives were originally all carbon. Then some stainless models were introduced. Finally all or most of the Old Timer models were gradually switched to stainless.

And are the new Taylor knives high carbon?
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I'm certain the Taylor reproductions are stainless steel.

-Bob
 
AJ,
Nice going new guy! A USA made 80T and a Sharpfinger still in the clampack for $5 each, damn good buy!

Let me preface my next comment by saying that I am in no way an expert on collecting Schrade knives, nor do I know any more than the average schmo who has spent a little time buying these knives... That said, I think Schrade knives were affordable knives made to be used in the field, not to be collected as museum pieces. You don't really get to see the beauty of these knives until you use them, as is my experience. Especially the Old Timer's. They take a quick edge and hold it for a very reasonable amount of time. Every one I've ever used has performed very well and proved to be extremely durable. Great tools...

That's why guys like them, why they collect them, and subsequently why (unfortunately) they get addicted to collecting them. Because they were readily available, reliable, honest, hard-working tools at a reasonable price.

Oil up that 8OT and drop it in your pocket. After a week or two of real use, you'll see why guys like Schrade's. Again, just one man's opinion.
 
Kevins,
Thanks for the reply...yeah I think I got a tremendously good deal. I really love my leatherman wave and have been using them quite awhile. They are THE PERFECT tool for having on movie sets as they can do a variety of things reasonably well in a relatively small package.

I think I will like the sharpfinger as well for other cutting tasks.

Have any of you guys used a swisstool spirit? And if so, is it the lastest of the swisstools and would you recommend it over the wave? (I'm asking you schrade lovers cause you've got classic tastes)

Thanks

Aj
 
ps...just for my info...

What is the general price that someone would have paid for those two knives new in package at this time? I got them on clearance but I'm sure they are worth more.

Aj
 
You can check eBay for current values, but be sure you're looking at original Schrades in mint unused condition (the market is flooded with current reproductions, and many sellers are not upfront as to their knives' origins).

My guess would be in the $30-40-ish range, each. Perhaps a bit lower since it seems that clampacked knives are less desireable than those in boxes.

-Bob
 
Okay, here's a new question for you guys. I just saw a new knife today that is not a schrade or a taylor and it looks just like the sharpfinger with the same type of leather holster. It sells new for 19.99 and is made in the U.S.A. by (if I recall correctly) United Cutlery co.? Can anyone shed any light on this knife. It is so similar that I would say these guys must have the right to make them. The differences were the blade was grey rather than polished, the handles were black delrin and they were much better finished than the schrade I have. Again, these were stamped as made in the U.S.A. right on the blade and on the package as well.

Very interesante....
 
Though the Sharpfinger design appeared quite distinctive, as far as I've been able to determine it was never the subject of a design patent. Anyone could have made them that chose to. The name "SHARP FINGER" was a registered trademark of Imperial Schrade, so other manufacturers would have had to call it something else. Today, the trademark is sorta owned by Taylor Brands Limited Liability Company. I say sorta, because the last time I checked, they had not renewed the trademark registration as they had "Old Timer" and several others in the Imperial Schrade intellectual property portfolio acquired at the auction in 2004.

Quite a few companies make copies of the Sharpfinger these days. United had at least two designs made at their Arrowhead factory in Rockford, Tennessee (with several brandings of each) and imported at least another two designs from overseas through their Tomahawk Division. Camillus, Bear & Son, Maxam, Taylor Brands, Ruko, Ka-Bar and others have used the pattern now.

Why didn't the Baers get a design patent on the Sharpfinger? I don't believe they originated the design. I believe that it was a much older German design which was altered slightly into the shape we have become familiar with. However the "modified scimitar" skinner pattern was not unique enough as compared to it's predecessor to merit a design patent. Very few knife designs are distinctive enough to warrant the expense of a Utility Patent. Those are usually on mechanisms or manufacturing methods.

Michael
 
ohhhh...that's a great answer Codger. Thanks.

Now how about the quality of the United knife. Is it better than the Taylor, or the same? And are the sheaths made in American as well?
 
The United Arrowhead knife I have is of good quality. The sheath is as well. The Taylor knife I have is of poor quality as is it's sheath. I reviewed both here some time ago. Both are Sharpfinger designs. Every Chinese knife I have examined (152OT, 15OT, 171UH, LB7) has been lacking in quality, but they were all early production pieces. As I have said in the past, I do expect the Chinese to increase their quality of the knives they sell to TBLLC. Quality, while important, is not my main determining factor in deciding whether or not to buy Chinese knives. I simply choose not to for personal reasons. Arrowhead/United made some quality knives here in the U.S. Note I said made. United went bankrupt and the Arrowhead manufacturing plant was liquidated. The people who bought the United name and other trademarks are starting up again. What they do is yet to be seen, but imported fantasy knives would be my guess.

Michael
 
Codger,

So do you think the sharpfingers I saw were old United products or new ones? They didn't look like they had been sitting for a long time.
 
Arrowhead began manufacturing in August of 2003, if I am remembering correctly. They closed this past fall/winter. Their Sharpfinger pattern knives weren't made until after the Imperial Schrade closing in October of 2004. So any of these knives you see were likely made between late '04 and late '06. To my knowledge, the group that bought the United I.P. isn't manufacturing anything.

Here is a picture of the knife I believe to be a pattern predecessor of the Sharpfinger. It was imported from Germany by Adolph Kastor & Brothers / Camillus Cutlery in the early part of last century (1905-1936), and the possibility exists that Albert Baer handled these while working there (1922-1940).



As you can see, the Sharpfinger is not an exact copy, but close enough that a patent examiner would reject a design patent on the Sharpie as being "obvious to one practiced in the arts" of cutlery, and not significantly different from "prior art". The Deerslayer, patented by Henry Baer in 1964/65, however, was significantly different and was granted a design patent.



Michael
 
Thanks Codger...you are truly a wealth of knowlege. I read your review on the United Cutlery sharpfinger and think that I want one now. I wonder if the price is actually less than what was stickered as they are out of business now...hmm.

Have you seen any of these for cheap anywhere besides ebay?

Aj
 
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