A Question For Slysz Bowie (or other ti framelock) Owners

[VermontEdge]

So I have a Slysz Bowie and absolutely love it. It's tied for favorite EDC with my Native 5. That being said, I've developed a kind of paranoia around the lock.

Specifically, the lock is easy to push when disengaging, and without a lockbar stop I get worried. I find that every time I disengage the lock I'm trying to be so, so ginger with it so as not to push it too far. Often times, I push the lock bar over until the lock face leaves the tang, then I feel the tang come in contact with the detent ball, then push it the rest of the way closed.

Now, maybe I'm being crazy (probably) but I was wondering if anyone could share their experiences with ti frame locks that don't have a lock bar stop. Is over-disengaging a real problem? Do I really need to be so careful? I mean, I don't abuse my things by any means, but I would hate to be doing any harm to such a favorite knife.

Also, disclaimer: I'm not suggesting any criticism about there not being a lock bar stop. I love the knife the way it is. I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter.

As always, thanks!

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I've never had a problem with my Ti Millie, though I'm not rough with it. I think over-disengaging the lock bar is only a problem if you don't know your own strength/are not paying attention.

Note that, for safety purposes, you should always pay attention when disengaging a framelock, liner lock, or any other locking folder where your fingers come into the blade's path during lock disengagement.

 

[makariotes]

I've never had a problem with my Ti Millie, though I'm not rough with it. I think over-disengaging the lock bar is only a problem if you don't know your own strength/are not paying attention.

Note that, for safety purposes, you should always pay attention when disengaging a framelock, liner lock, or any other locking folder where your fingers come into the blade's path during lock disengagement.

Well said. I also find that titanium is a very springy metal, it takes a lot of force to bend it out of shape, thus its usage as a framelock; for what I know (and I could be wrong) they usually set the travel with heat, so the way that you are disengaging your lock will not damage it, ever. As Kwon has already mentioned, just pay attention, but I wouldn't baby it.

Rick Hinderer's testimony about the creation of the lock bar stabilizer is that it was originated because he was under stress in a rescue situation and was wearing gloves, so he couldn't feel how much force he was putting on the lock bar when disengaging it, so he tweaked it bad; so he designed the now famous LBS. Chris Reeve, the inventor of the R.I.L, or Reeve Integral Lock, vulgo lock bar as we know it, still uses no stabilizer in any of his knives except the Umnumzaan, and they don't seem to have any problems at all, at least I haven't experienced any problems with any of them, or heard of anyone having problems with the lock.

I also have a ZT560 and I find that I never over extend the bar enough to touch the stabilizer...So my point is, fear not, and enjoy your knife; the way you describe how you unlock it sounds right to me; as with all things it takes getting used to it, eventually you will know and feel where the right spot is even without looking at it.
I hope this helps you out somehow..

 

[Cursum Perficio]

I have recently acquired the Slysz Bowie. It was b****y expensive given the exchange rate I face, but I'm glad I got it, beautiful folder to handle and use so far.

I know what you mean OP, I am very conscious of the lack of over travel stop when closing the Slysz. I'm not particularly worried about it, but I am certainly aware of it and careful with it, perhaps 'cos I'm used to the ZT 0562 and 0561 with the stops, also the Domino and 790 Subrosa which utilize the pocket clip as an over travel stop.

I have been closing the Slysz with my forefinger pushing very lightly on the blade spine so I can feel the point at which I have thumbed the lock bar enough to close it.
I reckon I'll get used to it in time. I don't think it will be come a problem. Call it faith in Marcin Slysz and Spyderco, they know far more than I ever will about such things.

 

[VermontEdge]

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone! I'll do my best to silence my paranoia around the issue. I mean...this thing is also so smooth that closing it too fast or aggressively would send the blade right into my thumb, so careful closing is always a good idea no matter what.

I've read before that the idea behind Hinderer's LBS are designed for emergency, adrenaline filled situations, and that totally makes sense to me. I've also seen the argument before that CRK don't have them, which also makes me feel better. I think some of my concern comes from the ease with which I can push the lock bar over, but I also carry this knife as a dressier edc, and it tends to be a light user so I'm not habitually finding myself in situations where I'm rushed or not being cautious.

I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts or opinions, but I really appreciate what's been written so far! This kind of helpfulness and positivity is why I love this forum!

 

[Brock O Lee]

I have a Sage 2 which does not have an over travel stop. Like you, I am also extra careful not to over extend the lock bar. During the last 2 years of regular carry it has never been a problem though. I do like the over travel stop feature, and prefer designs with them, especially if it also includes the steel lock bar insert that eliminates ti lock stick, like on the ti Military.

 

[Faron]

Funny I felt the same about the locking bar , nice knife , not cheap , but for me back to the para 2 no fear on this one. Anyone would think I like the para 2 or something Roll on christmas. Faron.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

I've never had a problem with my Ti Millie, though I'm not rough with it. I think over-disengaging the lock bar is only a problem if you don't know your own strength/are not paying attention.

Note that, for safety purposes, you should always pay attention when disengaging a framelock, liner lock, or any other locking folder where your fingers come into the blade's path during lock disengagement.

My Ti Militaries have overtravel stops built in. This is weird because the clip also acts as an overtravel stop. With two overtravel stops I am not surprised that you have not had any problems.

 

[makariotes]

I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts or opinions, but I really appreciate what's been written so far! This kind of helpfulness and positivity is why I love this forum!

The appreciation is reciprocal; thanks for posting your concern; it made me think about the beautifully made knife you got, mainly after looking at Cursum's pic; that's a very nice looking knife; I'm starting to lust over it[emoji12].....it is on my Christmas list now....

 

[justsomedude]

I'm having trouble finding the source, but I'm pretty sure Chris Reeve added the LBS to the Umnumzaan because people were intentionally bending out the lock bar so that it put less force on the blade, making it easier to flick open.

 

[VermontEdge]

The appreciation is reciprocal; thanks for posting your concern; it made me think about the beautifully made knife you got, mainly after looking at Cursum's pic; that's a very nice looking knife; I'm starting to lust over it[emoji12].....it is on my Christmas list now....

Haha, thanks man! I love enabling a fellow knife nut. It really is an incredible knife all around. Allow me to add to the lust...

 

[makariotes]

Dang! It's really cool. Nice pictures man, it looks like a nasty slicer for sure, I'm going to check the specs out, I hope the blade is not overly thick, 3 to 4 mm would be ideal for me. Thanks man.

 

[justsomedude]

BOOM, source: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...WC-Startac-(new-model-)?p=9962514#post9962514

 

[makariotes]

BOOM, source: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...WC-Startac-(new-model-)?p=9962514#post9962514

Thank you sir for the link; very interesting indeed.

 

[brownshoe]

I'm having trouble finding the source, but I'm pretty sure Chris Reeve added the LBS to the Umnumzaan because people were intentionally bending out the lock bar so that it put less force on the blade, making it easier to flick open.

You are correct. The lockbar stop is to protect the knife from abuse.

Despite the origin story of the lockbar stop, it's my belief that the lockbar stop is a solution looking for a problem Like most solutions looking for problems, it's a marketing trick to discriminate a knife from all the other Ti frame locks.

 

[CapitalizedLiving]

So I have a Slysz Bowie and absolutely love it. It's tied for favorite EDC with my Native 5. That being said, I've developed a kind of paranoia around the lock.

Specifically, the lock is easy to push when disengaging, and without a lockbar stop I get worried. I find that every time I disengage the lock I'm trying to be so, so ginger with it so as not to push it too far. Often times, I push the lock bar over until the lock face leaves the tang, then I feel the tang come in contact with the detent ball, then push it the rest of the way closed.

Now, maybe I'm being crazy (probably) but I was wondering if anyone could share their experiences with ti frame locks that don't have a lock bar stop. Is over-disengaging a real problem? Do I really need to be so careful? I mean, I don't abuse my things by any means, but I would hate to be doing any harm to such a favorite knife.

Also, disclaimer: I'm not suggesting any criticism about there not being a lock bar stop. I love the knife the way it is. I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter.

As always, thanks!

Things like lock bar stops and steel inserts for the lock face evolved out of customer demand for features. They aren't necessary, and once you have them it is easy to forget that. Chris Reeve doesn't use such things as far as I can tell, and I wouldn't think this means his stuff is defective, less safe, or less "advanced" than a knife that has them.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

I have a Sage 2 which does not have an over travel stop. Like you, I am also extra careful not to over extend the lock bar. During the last 2 years of regular carry it has never been a problem though. I do like the over travel stop feature, and prefer designs with them, especially if it also includes the steel lock bar insert that eliminates ti lock stick, like on the ti Military.

I will echo this. You are being over cautious. Just keep doing it the way you have been and you should be fine.

I will add that I have bent a few lock bars very, very slightly to either add or remove tension. This is frowned upon and I am not advocating it. That said, you have to bend it pretty far to get it to actually deform. Unless you are pushing the bar at least 1/2 inch past the scale it isn't gonna deform. I have been told that Ti is not heat treated to get it springy. It is just bent into place. I have also been told that Ti work hardens very fast so too much bending back and forth past the point of deformation can cause it to break which is one of the reasons makers don't want people tweaking lock bars, with safety/liability being the obvious reason. If you ever do bend it too far just be careful bending it back because it isn't supposed to tolerate too much of that. I have only tweaked a couple of knives and just slightly and I haven't had a problem yet.

I would prefer a steel insert/overtravel stop myself. I use my knives in the winter with gloves on. I think pushing a lock bar to far is a real possibility then. I prefer the steel insert because I don't like sticky locks and in my experience they are less sticky.

I was told that Kit Carson prefered Ti lock faces because they gave a little "stick" so I guess this really is just preference. Some reputable people seem to favor them and some don't. I don't think there has to be a right and wrong answer in regards to either the overtravel stop or insert. Different strokes.

 

[VermontEdge]

Ok so just for the sake of argument:

1st picture is normal lockup, second picture is me pushing the lock bar as far as I might if I were being careless (further would require real intentionality/effort). Does the second photo, in anyone's opinion, show the lock bar being disengaged too far?

 

[makariotes]

Ok so just for the sake of argument:

1st picture is normal lockup, second picture is me pushing the lock bar as far as I might if I were being careless (further would require real intentionality/effort). Does the second photo, in anyone's opinion, show the lock bar being disengaged too far?

I don't think so; but it doesn't need that far to disengage the lock. Maybe put your index in the spine and the moment you feel the lock disengage then stop. Just my opinion; I bet it returns to normal even doing it like you're showing.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

No, I don't think that is anywhere near far enough to damage the lock. Unless you are pushing it far enough that the inside of the lock bar goes past the outside of the scale then you should be fine. I picked up a factory second that was super duper stiff and I ever so slightly bent the lockbar out. So little that it was hard to tell even by eye that I had but just enough, maybe 1/32 of an inch at the most. It hurt my thumb to even try to disengage the lock and the action was tight regardless of pivot adjustment. It is smooth as glass now and lockup is 100% tight. Anyway, I had to push it way further out than that to see any change. Just don't get distracted with gloves on or something and push it way out. The only Ti framelock I have without an overtravel stop is my Sage2 and it is more of an EDC knife so that is less of an issue.

A lot of overtravel stops allow a lockbar to come out as far as your pic. That actually looks very normal.