a question for those that don't solder guards

Matthew Gregory

Matthew Gregory

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The advantages to soldering a guard to a stick tang blade (assuming all goes well with the process) are:
- a hermetic seal between the blade and the guard, preventing corrosion from occurring under or behind the guard from moisture.
-a strong bond between blade and guard
-a PERMANENT bond (meaning that the bond will not break down or fail over the course of many years)

Some folks use other means of affixing guards. I hear JB Weld used a lot (done it myself, in fact), as well as various other epoxies and such. Has anyone ever experienced a failure of these methods to maintain a seal or a bond over the life (to date) of a knife?

I'm thinking long term here, more along the means of heirloom than anything else. High end gunsmiths such as Purdy and Holland & Holland don't take shortcuts - it's a given that they're going to use methods that will allow their products to withstand the ages, which means they'll be handed down through the years rather than disposed of, or in perpetual need of service to maintain. I'm not comparing myself to these craftsman, mind you, however I do wish to adopt the practices and processes now so that my skills develop accordingly.

With that said, I want to know of a failure of these other materials before I discount using them. I've never heard of one, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
What's your take on it? Why do you use what you use?
 
I think it is the process that makes most shy away from soldering! The overheat or the I can't clean up what is left behind .

I made a knife I made several years ago when I was first getting started making knives that had a brass finger guard on it. Not knowing another way to attach it I was convinced I needed to silver solder it. At the time I felt it was beyond my skills so I took the knife to it by my local blacksmith/welder.
He does this kind of work all the time. We wrapped the blade in a soaking wet cloth to avoid the heat transfer to the blade and he silver soldered it for me. Once cleaned up there is only one spot that the silver solder shows on the front side of the finger guard.
Try as I might when doing the handle and the finish sanding I was never able to overcome that one small area that the silver solder showed. I polished it up and it is barely visible. I never sold the knife and I still posses it today. It is a very useable piece and most would never even see that flaw, but I was never able to overcome it!
Now I guess I am just leary of screwing up a great looking knife with a botched silver solder job so I mostly pin and epoxy! It is a process that takes lots of experience and extreme cleanliness.
 
I've never heard of a failure with a non-soldered guard.

I do a very tight fit and add a sealer (locktite, or similar). If there's no movement or any
gap at the guard joint, how can there be a failure?
 
I to us J. B. Weld. Have never had a problem and I second what Don said. I learned the trick from a friend name Terry Primos who learned it from Jerry Fisk and I think if it is good enough for Don and Jerry it is good enough for me.
 
Don Hanson III said:
I've never heard of a failure with a non-soldered guard.

I do a very tight fit and add a sealer (locktite, or similar). If there's no movement or any
gap at the guard joint, how can there be a failure?
Click to expand...

Over time (and that amount of time can be a LONG time, I'll admit) epoxies and most other similar materials will break down, whether it be through oxidation, UV, heat, etc. Solder will only fail if the seam is cracked, or it is heated beyond the threshold of the solder - either circumstances being points where the knife itself will have given up the ghost.

That's the reason I ask, though, Don... if someone can give me a point of experience where it HAS failed, it will be enough to convince me that soldering is worthwhile. Otherwise, I really need to consider if the additional work is necessary, or just more work!

Thanks for responding, btw...:)
 
IMO, a beautiful, neat fillet of solver solder that is uniform and polished is one of the hallmarks of a well made knife
 
Unless the fit and/or process is really sloppy to begin with, you'll have to go a long long way to get a press-fitted JB-Welded guard to fail. I feel the JB weld is mainly there as a bonus, if the whole handle is built properly it's not going to come apart regardless.

Screw one up and be forced to tear it apart, you'll see what I mean. :o

However, a really well-done silver solder fillet is indeed a beautiful thing as RJ said. I was at a gun show just yesterday and looked at a Randall that was just... wow!
 
I do agree that a well done silver solder joint looks great. But looks better on a stainless stock removal knife. I don't care for the look on a knife with damascus blade and or guard. Just my personal preference.
 
I stopped soldering guards over 10 years ago, just too messy... though done properly I agree it's beautiful.

Now I have some epoxy in there, and use vacuum to pull it through the joint, though last time none would come through and I had to squish it on top just to make sure!
 
Agreed that cleaning up a solder joint can be aggravating to say the least. I've driven on guards from the back that thin CA wouldn't go thru taken the guard off and resanded it flat put it on again and still had the seal so yeah it was tight. I'll take the solder every time.
Ken.
 
Thin CA works great on guards that are not that tight, still no gap showing (shouldn't have a gap anyway:)). For the real tight fit, use Lock Tite and apply to inside of guard and tang area, then press on. This will make a water tight seal.
 
james terrio said:
I feel the JB weld is mainly there as a bonus, if the whole handle is built properly it's not going to come apart regardless.

Screw one up and be forced to tear it apart, you'll see what I mean. :o
Click to expand...

I agree that there's not likely to be a mechanical failure with any of these methods, however without something that will seal the seam and make it hermetic, moisture can and will enter at that location. I'm certain that this is why folks like Mr. Fisk and Mr. Hanson use some form of sealant in addition to a tight mechanical fit.

Man, James, I wish I couldn't relate to the agony of disassembling a knife! :D
 
I have trying a soldered joint high on my list of skills I want to learn.

An epoxied joint takes less skill and equiptment as a soldered one. That's why the few knives I've made so far are all epoxied.
 
I have done both, I prefer a tight fit with JBweld over solder, my first JBwelded knife uses JBweld not just to seal the guard to the blade, but also to hold the blade into the antler handle, It is over 15 years old and was my daily carry for 3 years with no degradation, on the other hand the flux from the low temperature silver solder seems to find invisible pores in the brass of the guards and on a couple of blades I made 20 years ago has formed rust. (real silver solder , the stuff that melts at 1150f doesn't have that problem, but it has its own issues when soldering to a blade or a brass/bronze guard)

-Page
 
Matthew Gregory said:
I agree that there's not likely to be a mechanical failure with any of these methods, however without something that will seal the seam and make it hermetic, moisture can and will enter at that location. I'm certain that this is why folks like Mr. Fisk and Mr. Hanson use some form of sealant in addition to a tight mechanical fit.

Man, James, I wish I couldn't relate to the agony of disassembling a knife! :D
Click to expand...

I agree completely, and I feel the same way about full tangs with scales... I have a lot of faith in Corby's or peened pins holding it together but also use epoxy to make sure it's sealed against moisture. :thumbup: I call it the "belt and suspenders" approach :)

As for disassembling... I haven't had to do it for the same reason twice yet, so maybe I'm learning something :o
 
The epoxy I use completely negates the need for any form of mechanical fastening such as pins or bolts. I use them for no reason other than the aesthetic they may offer. When I've been forced to remove a handle or scale, I have had to grind it off, as the materials will not separate by any means other than burning, and I'm just not comfortable doing that. I've yet to try a heat gun, as that's usually the best way to get epoxy to let loose (most fail above 250 or 300 degrees).
 
Hey Matt - you know I don't make knives, but if I did, I'd mill shoulders on all four sides and drill it for a pin behind the guard.
 
...you don't make knives? You must be too busy hunting redtail hawks. I'll bet that gun isn't even loaded...
 
None of my guns are loaded, what guns? I don't have any guns in the house, but if I did they'd be unloaded, well, except for those guns...
 
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