A question on Dirks and Dagger laws in Caliornia

[butterflyknives]

My question is would a knife with no point such as a cleaver or a becker tack-tool machete be carried concealed because california defined a dirk or dagger as "16470. As used in this part, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or
other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready
use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 21510, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position."

 

[glistam]

Now we're getting into "theoreticals." The written law as it stands (which you pasted above), as well as available case law, does not address this question. Thus anything that follows from me or any other poster on this forum is purely speculative.

The first question you should ask is "If a cop pats me down an finds a cleaver or Tac-Tool, how will he react?" If you think he'll say "Oh, this has no point on it, so it cannot be used to stab, so it falls neatly into a loophole. I'll have to let you go now." I think you will be disappointed. You might to argue that point before a judge, but a cop probably isn't going to buy it. They're not trained nor inclined to goof around with statutory language, and 9/10 if a cop is patting you down, he already thoroughly dislikes you and will use any excuse to take you in.

Furthermore, both the cop and the prosecutor could argue the definition of "stab," in that a sharpened point is not required for this. There is a old saying in classical swordplay, "A tip can also slash, an edge can also stab." The edge can be shoved forcibly into another person and will still inflict a serious wound. The corner of the blade can also stab.

 

[killgar]

That's a very interesting question. I've been reading and re-reading California knife laws for many years and I never considered the fact that the law specifically states "stabbing weapon".

But here's the thing, while a smart defense attorney might be able to successfully convince a jury that such knives as you mentioned are not "stabbing weapons" and win you an aquittal, think of the hell you might have to go through in order to obtain that aquittal. Going to jail, staying in jail for months if you can't afford bail, possibly losing your job, possibly losing you place of residence, time away from your family, possibly aquiring more charges while in jail (despite ones best efforts, this happens. Sometimes it's impossible to avoid trouble in jail), and then of course- how are you going to pay for an attorney? A public defender might be willing to fight for you, but don't expect it.

And then there's the flip-side, I don't think a prosecuter would have a difficult time convincing a jury that a guy walking around with a conceald cleaver or machete was up to no good. I'd wager that you would be convicted. And if you are convicted of a weapons charge you REALLY won't like what happens to you.

Bottom line, my advice is, don't carry ANY fixed-blade conceald, no matter how it's designed. Don't tempt the beast (criminal justice system), because when it bites, it bites HARD. I feel safe in stating that if you are caught carrying a cleaver or machete in a conceald manner that you are GARUNTEED to lose far more than you would ever stand to gain, you will suffer, and you would certainly regret your decision. Don't do it.

And just so you know, I've been through the California criminal justice system, as well as jail and prison. So I know of what I speak.

 

[butterflyknives]

Thanks for the advise I was just wondering cause I just printed the penal code to keep in my backpack and I just never read the definition