A Subvert engineering and design related question for Sal, Erick, anyone on team Spyderco...

hookahhabib

hookahhabib

Joined
Feb 24, 2011
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Hello Spyderco friends!

So as we all know, Spyderco has had some pretty awesome releases these past couple years, one of my favorites being the Subvert.

That big beautiful blade, those beefy liners, Taichung's solid build quality and knowledge in regards to properly designing and executing a lock all add up to perfection....even more so as I think Nati's design looks even better without the flipper tab.

With all this said, I respectfully, and with genuine curiosity have to ask why the decision to go with a ball-bearing pivot on this design. With how much lower maintenance PB washers usually are, their ability to take higher lateral loads, and being more impervious to dirty conditions, washers seemed like a no-brainer for a knife like the Subvert.

So I've been really curious to know what is the reasoning behind the ball bearing pivot on this model?

Has the Spyderco done much torture or strength testing on the current ball bearing setup that is being used? Can you guys share any details or info about this?

I mean no disrespect and genuinely want to understand things a bit better than I do right now.

Any and all info would be greatly appreciated.

The Subvert originally was on my instant buy list, but ever since finding out about the pivot choice, I've lost a little bit of steam. Still thinking I'll grab one sooner rather than later, but in the meanwhile it would be awesome to know some of the reasoning behind this design choice.

Thanks for all that you do guys...

Currently have a Chubby in my pocket and I'm loving it every time I carry it.

Cheers guys!

-Habib
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Hookahhabib,

We usually try to build the models as the collaborator wants.

sal
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That actually makes sense ...that's the one factor that I hadn't considered.

With how much I like the design, Spyderco, and Nati I'll probably step out of my anti-bearing comfort zone and have to give this bad boy a try anyway...

Thanks for your time Sal
 
Not about the OP question, but just want to express my hope for future Spydercos: please do not use ball bearings if PB washers are an option. I say so after owning dozens of each in the range of $100-$450 each.
 
I would also like to see some chamfering around the spydie hole, especially on these high-end knives. When you flick it open with your middle finger it scrapes off a little bit of your nail each time.
 
44magnumb said:
I would also like to see some chamfering around the spydie hole, especially on these high-end knives. When you flick it open with your middle finger it scrapes off a little bit of your nail each time.
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I'm not sure if the average consumer would notice a nicely chamfered Spydie hole, but it would be such a nice little fit & finish effort. The sharp Spydie holes bug me and do seem to detract from what is usually an almost-perfect production knife.
 
The sharp precise edge around the hole has come up before and it's deliberate.

If anyone wants to burnish it down a bit after purchase that's easy to do. What would be hard is for anyone who prefers that precision to make a rounded edge square.

I like the square corner/positive feel that they have now.
 
Danke42 said:
The sharp precise edge around the hole has come up before and it's deliberate.

If anyone wants to burnish it down a bit after purchase that's easy to do. What would be hard is for anyone who prefers that precision to make a rounded edge square.

I like the square corner/positive feel that they have now.
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I have about 9 Spydercos, a mix from Colorado and Taichung. The spydie hole on my Techno has very nicely rounded edges, but still is easily opened with no slipping. The rest of my collection are pretty square, but not uncomfortable. However, the edges on my Subvert are not just square but sharp. They are sharp to the point of shaving off a little bit of my nail each time I open it. This is the most expensive Spyderco I've bought it should have a better finish than the Techno that's $100 less and has better steel.
 
44magnumb said:
I have about 9 Spydercos, a mix from Colorado and Taichung. The spydie hole on my Techno has very nicely rounded edges, but still is easily opened with no slipping. The rest of my collection are pretty square, but not uncomfortable. However, the edges on my Subvert are not just square but sharp. They are sharp to the point of shaving off a little bit of my nail each time I open it. This is the most expensive Spyderco I've bought it should have a better finish than the Techno that's $100 less and has better steel.
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I've always had pretty horny hands so this doesn't bug me. If you look back through the threads here there's an explanation from the factory.
 
I really dont think of the few people that buy a subvert at 300 a pop that they are going to hard use this knife. I have one and i dont even carry it. Its my desk fidget toy lol. Just sayin.

The orange scales get really dirty fast too.

Its a collectors knife imho. Not that it couldnt be used. And not that it couldnt be used hard. But yea.
 
My thumb must be rough because by far no spydieholes have bothered me even a bit. On the other hand, my palm must be tender because the large Sebenza's butt corner hurt my palm so badly that I had to sell it. The pocket clip on the new Doug Ritter / Hogue does the same thing to my palm.
 
What I try to do now on these expensive knives is handle them first before buying.

I don't want to presume that just because something is expensive I'm sure to like it. It's almost the oppostite; the more expensive something this the better chance that I'll pass it over.
 
44magnumb said:
I have about 9 Spydercos, a mix from Colorado and Taichung. The spydie hole on my Techno has very nicely rounded edges, but still is easily opened with no slipping. The rest of my collection are pretty square, but not uncomfortable. However, the edges on my Subvert are not just square but sharp. They are sharp to the point of shaving off a little bit of my nail each time I open it. This is the most expensive Spyderco I've bought it should have a better finish than the Techno that's $100 less and has better steel.
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Could it be you have soft nails? :P

The Techno is a stonewashed blade, I think that's why the hole is slightly smoother.
 
I think the Subvert is one of the those quirky designs that will become popular after it's discontinued. Or maybe it's already popular:). I'm not sure.
I just decided I want one for the collection.
 
AF said:
I think the Subvert is one of the those quirky designs that will become popular after it's discontinued. Or maybe it's already popular:). I'm not sure.
I just decided I want one for the collection.
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I hope it's never discontinued, it's awesome!
 
sharp_edge sharp_edge AF AF and for all of those wishing for more PB, and less Ball bearings, I'm totally with you guys there! Ball bearings just seem to add unnecessary complication and the need for more thorough maintenance as gunk, sand, and grit accumulate with time and use of any knife. The current obsession with the silly "drop shut" fad is counterintuitive to everything I've come to love and expect out of a knife, but furthermore, a well made, nicely finished knife running on washers will also "drop shut" with enough use and break in...I guess I just don't get it...


Mo2 said:
I really dont think of the few people that buy a subvert at 300 a pop that they are going to hard use this knife. I have one and i dont even carry it. Its my desk fidget toy lol. Just sayin.

The orange scales get really dirty fast too.

Its a collectors knife imho. Not that it couldnt be used. And not that it couldnt be used hard. But yea.
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As far as this goes, I completely hear you, but respectfully disagree in that this knife is not meant to be used. $300 is way less expensive than the price for Nati's customs, and the Subvert seems like the perfect way for people who appreciate his Sabotage design to put the design to work without fear of ruining a very expensive and exclusive custom knife.

It bums me out that the fidget/toy factor seems to be influencing the engineering and execution of many production knives more so than considerations in regards to actual projected long term use.

My knives are tools first, and then toys.

sliceofaloha sliceofaloha !!! :lol: hahahaha! Can't ever go wrong with a good Chubby in the pants ;-) :-p
 
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