A Wilderness/Remote Medicine Sub-Forum

[untamed]

As a tactics, safety and medic nut, I've been meaning to suggest this for the longest time.

Thanks for J. Williams who's already started the ball in his recent posts, I'm pinging Kevin and Bryan to consider this.

What do you guys think?

 

[HikingMano]

Big +1:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[untamed]

Can't you just see it now? With an emaphasis on:

- how to improvise gear
- natural and provern folk/rural cures
- 3rd world applicable (when there's nothing fancy or expensive at hand)
- a helpful library of flora and fauna
- gear/gadgets exemplars
- best practices

(You'll notice I've been thinking of the material outline for sometime . . . )

 

[go2ndAmend]

Here's the safety speech I give to my friends when they come over to help me on the crazy projects around my place. "Gentlemen, I don't have insurance but I do have a backhoe. If you get hurt, I will bury you so deep they will never find you." It works everytime, I have never had anyone tell me they got hurt. Seriously though, I think a wilderness medicine/safety sub-forum would be very helpful. It is an area in which I know I need to learn a lot.

 

[wildmike]

That would be very beneficial to many of us.

 

[k_estela]

Why don't we start with a sticky and see how many posts we get. We'll leave the topic open and run with it for a while. If it seems like it gets a lot of traffic, we can approach SPARK and see what he says.

Now, here is the reality. This WS&S forum is on Bladeforums and accordingly, most posts have more knife content than skills or survival content. This is fine considering it is what we expect and it is part of our passion here. I am going to assume the thread will be popular at first then slow down to a virtual stop.

Let's find out. Start a general thread with a good explanation of what you're looking for and I'll make it stick.

Kev

 

[j williams]

I am now working on a write-up to post on exposure. Cold weather and hot weather injuries, and rewarming techniques for frostnip, bite, frozen cornea(snow blindness), eyes froze shut. As well as info on hydration, dehydration, heat stroke, heat exaustion etc.... It is a very in-depth and important widerness skill.

I think you have a great idea!
Would be cool to have a resource for these things. However, I think the knives and gear could be kept where they are, and use the sub-forum for medicine, plants and other skill based threads.

 

[KuRUpTD]

Would be cool to have a resource for these things.

+1 ... what's the use of having a FAK and no knowledge of how to treat wounds, breaks and such .

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Maybe we can get a Health & Safety prefix as a start. That's really what these prefixes are for. Then anyone interested can search for all threads, etc.

 

[j williams]

Good idea Esav!

 

[D25]

I think it's a great idea. :thumbup:

 

[ChadHahn]

+1 ... what's the use of having a FAK and no knowledge of how to treat wounds, breaks and such .

While reading information on the internet can be invaluable, I think that you would be better served by taking a first aid course or a wilderness first responder course. That way you would get hands on experience and a trained professional would tell you if you were doing something wrong.

Chad

 

[D25]

While reading information on the internet can be invaluable, I think that you would be better served by taking a first aid course or a wilderness first responder course. That way you would get hands on experience and a trained professional would tell you if you were doing something wrong.

Chad

That is an excellent point. I am pretty knowledgable about emergency medicine/ wilderness medicine, but I hesitate to offer my opinions on the subject matter when these threads come up because a tidbit of advice here and there will not make someone "prepared." A FA ro WFR class or two would serve as a foundation, volunteering at your local fire department would solidify skills, and these kind of internet discussions should augment that kind of training. A dedicated forum would be a good touchstone for the endeavor of becoming proficient in back country first aid.

 

[j williams]

While reading information on the internet can be invaluable, I think that you would be better served by taking a first aid course or a wilderness first responder course. That way you would get hands on experience and a trained professional would tell you if you were doing something wrong.

Chad

I agree.:thumbup:

That is an excellent point. I am pretty knowledgable about emergency medicine/ wilderness medicine, but I hesitate to offer my opinions on the subject matter when these threads come up because a tidbit of advice here and there will not make someone "prepared." A FA ro WFR class or two would serve as a foundation, volunteering at your local fire department would solidify skills, and these kind of internet discussions should augment that kind of training. A dedicated forum would be a good touchstone for the endeavor of becoming proficient in back country first aid.

The point of my threads is not to turn everyone into a EMT from my living room. The point is to explain some procedures, and comman injury you are likely to see. You can take an EMT class, or volunteer at the FD, but alot of the info thrown at you would be of no use to someone just trying to get a grasp on certain wilderness skills, and might confuse more then help. Plus a few ride alongs 99% of the time wont give you jack except an outlook of people who abuse the system. It takes serious boot time to gain experiance.

Some people havent the time or money to invest in classes, and I think by covering the basics, and having your presense around here to awnser questions on said things, you are giving the person a TREMENDOUS step forward in learning at the least to keep a level head b/c they remember some key points of a disccusion.

I have my basis covered, but that doesnt mean that I dont feel an obligation to throw some info out there for others to pick up a few things. I thought this was the point of this forum, I like gear pics the same as the rest, but I REALLY enjoy skills related threads. Medical stuff is a huge can of worms to open, b/c everyone has their own opinion on things, thats why I almost didnt post anything. But if one person takes something away from it, then I am happy. You can argue med stuff till the end of time.

Like I said, the people I wrote them for, took away what I wanted, the people who want to get arrogant, and condencending, and even resort to name calling, I dont care if they take anything away from it at all. I am not an expert, but I know that I have more experiance then some, and they are who I wrote this stuff for. I could have scanned my EMS books into the computer word for word 600 pages long, and some people would still disagree.

 

[HikingMano]

Maybe we can get a Health & Safety prefix as a start. That's really what these prefixes are for. Then anyone interested can search for all threads, etc.

Good Idea Esav!:thumbup:

The point of my threads is not to turn everyone into a EMT from my living room. The point is to explain some procedures, and comman injury you are likely to see. You can take an EMT class, or volunteer at the FD, but alot of the info thrown at you would be of no use to someone just trying to get a grasp on certain wilderness skills, and might confuse more then help. Plus a few ride alongs 99% of the time wont give you jack except an outlook of people who abuse the system. It takes serious boot time to gain experiance.

Some people havent the time or money to invest in classes, and I think by covering the basics, and having your presense around here to awnser questions on said things, you are giving the person a TREMENDOUS step forward in learning at the least to keep a level head b/c they remember some key points of a disccusion.

I have my basis covered, but that doesnt mean that I dont feel an obligation to throw some info out there for others to pick up a few things. I thought this was the point of this forum, I like gear pics the same as the rest, but I REALLY enjoy skills related threads....

...I am not an expert, but I know that I have more experiance then some, and they are who I wrote this stuff for. I could have scanned my EMS books into the computer word for word 600 pages long, and some people would still disagree.

I wholeheartedly agree.:thumbup: For some this is a good source of info that is current AND accessible. Like Jake said, not all of us have the time or money to invest in a widerness medicine course and follow-up training, but that doesn't mean we resign ourselves to knowing nothing at all. I'd love to write more on this, maybe when I get back I'll get the chance.

 

[D25]

I agree.:thumbup:



The point of my threads is not to turn everyone into a EMT from my living room. The point is to explain some procedures, and comman injury you are likely to see. You can take an EMT class, or volunteer at the FD, but alot of the info thrown at you would be of no use to someone just trying to get a grasp on certain wilderness skills, and might confuse more then help. Plus a few ride alongs 99% of the time wont give you jack except an outlook of people who abuse the system. It takes serious boot time to gain experiance.

Some people havent the time or money to invest in classes, and I think by covering the basics, and having your presense around here to awnser questions on said things, you are giving the person a TREMENDOUS step forward in learning at the least to keep a level head b/c they remember some key points of a disccusion.

I have my basis covered, but that doesnt mean that I dont feel an obligation to throw some info out there for others to pick up a few things. I thought this was the point of this forum, I like gear pics the same as the rest, but I REALLY enjoy skills related threads. Medical stuff is a huge can of worms to open, b/c everyone has their own opinion on things, thats why I almost didnt post anything. But if one person takes something away from it, then I am happy. You can argue med stuff till the end of time.

Like I said, the people I wrote them for, took away what I wanted, the people who want to get arrogant, and condencending, and even resort to name calling, I dont care if they take anything away from it at all. I am not an expert, but I know that I have more experiance then some, and they are who I wrote this stuff for. I could have scanned my EMS books into the computer word for word 600 pages long, and some people would still disagree.

You are right, this discussion is a step in the right direction. Please don't take me for an arrogant, condescending name caller. Well, maybe I'm arrogant, but my intention is not to cut anyone down, it's quite the opposite- I think this is a fantastic idea. I think it is a tremendous undertaking, and I would be happy to help. But...
I disagree with the idea that "everyone has their own opinion" about these topics. Medical decision making is informed by science. If I were to say that elevation and pressure points for hemorrhage is no longer advised because there is no evidence that these actions are effective, would that be an opinion, or would you take the information in 2005 American Heart Association Guidelines for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Emergency Cardiovascular Care: Part 14: First Aid. Circulation 2005;112:IV196–IV203 as fact? The American College of Surgeons and PHTLS agrees with this as well- elevation and pressure points don't work until you are so hypovolemic/ hypotensive that it really dosen't matter. Your protocols may differ, but that is not a different opinion, it was the correct answer from 2004. Evidence gained since that time has given us a different correct answer, not a competing opinion.
Prehospital medicine is a relatively new phenomena, as such, it is very dynamic. That is the first reason that I advocate taking a class- get up to date information. The second reason is to understand the "whys and hows?" that come along with the information that you have provided. Your discussion on TQs was good, but as I read it I envisioned 550 cord tied tightly around blue extremities. Sure, you didn't want to scan 600 pages of textbook, but dontcha think that there ought to be a little guidance re: selection of appropriate TQs, both commercial and improvised, (wide=good, one handed application=good) how tight they ought to be (just tight enough), etc., etc? And since you are doing this for a lay audience, maybe a qualification to the TQ discussion about how rarely they need to be used outside the setting of a complex wound- in the thousand or so trauma runs I've done, I had to TQ twice.
Like I said, this isn't an attack. Your project is huge and admirable, and I'd be happy to help if I can, but we ought to attempt to avoid the "Just enough knowledge to be dangerous" scenerios.

 

[j williams]

You are right, this discussion is a step in the right direction. Please don't take me for an arrogant, condescending name caller. Well, maybe I'm arrogant, but my intention is not to cut anyone down, it's quite the opposite- I think this is a fantastic idea. I think it is a tremendous undertaking, and I would be happy to help. But...
I disagree with the idea that "everyone has their own opinion" about these topics. Medical decision making is informed by science. If I were to say that elevation and pressure points for hemorrhage is no longer advised because there is no evidence that these actions are effective, would that be an opinion, or would you take the information in 2005 American Heart Association Guidelines for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Emergency Cardiovascular Care: Part 14: First Aid. Circulation 2005;112:IV196–IV203 as fact? The American College of Surgeons and PHTLS agrees with this as well- elevation and pressure points don't work until you are so hypovolemic/ hypotensive that it really dosen't matter. Your protocols may differ, but that is not a different opinion, it was the correct answer from 2004. Evidence gained since that time has given us a different correct answer, not a competing opinion.
Prehospital medicine is a relatively new phenomena, as such, it is very dynamic. That is the first reason that I advocate taking a class- get up to date information. The second reason is to understand the "whys and hows?" that come along with the information that you have provided. Your discussion on TQs was good, but as I read it I envisioned 550 cord tied tightly around blue extremities. Sure, you didn't want to scan 600 pages of textbook, but dontcha think that there ought to be a little guidance re: selection of appropriate TQs, both commercial and improvised, (wide=good, one handed application=good) how tight they ought to be (just tight enough), etc., etc? And since you are doing this for a lay audience, maybe a qualification to the TQ discussion about how rarely they need to be used outside the setting of a complex wound- in the thousand or so trauma runs I've done, I had to TQ twice.
Like I said, this isn't an attack. Your project is huge and admirable, and I'd be happy to help if I can, but we ought to attempt to avoid the "Just enough knowledge to be dangerous" scenerios.

Oh no worries man, I wasnt referring to you, just the overall attitude of some of the replis.:thumbup:

Man, I see people disagree over treatment thought process all the time! Thats how we end up with these new treatments. Sometimes its not because the old ones dont work, just that somebody figured out a better approach. So there ends up being studies, and disagreements, and more studies etc..... Like you said, and thats what I mean by disagreements.

You are right, including some gear selection would be wise as well. I was shooting for more info based, but there does need to be inclusion of differant bandages, and TQs. :thumbup:

Thanks man, it is a huge undertaking, but I feel it could be accomplished with insight and suggestions, and debate. If you look at the wound care thread as a whole, Man, there is some really solid info there. Not just by me, but by everyone who contributed.:thumbup:

Thanks for your words, and insight.....I love hearing differant points of view, its what makes this place so valuable!!:thumbup:

 

[D25]

Cool. We are on the same page. If I can help with this undertaking, just let me know.:thumbup:

 

[j williams]

You know it bro! Will do!

 

[Rockywolf]

A fantastic idea. I was going to point out the headings thing also, but Esav beat me to it. He mentioned that back when we first were kicking around the new rules thread. It keeps things organized, IMO.

I am very interested in medical information. My ex wife is a DC, my mom a RN for over 40 years, and my dad was a Navy medical corpsman/hospital inspector for almost 30 years. Fun stuff!