A2 or 5160

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Apr 22, 2007
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In a 8" to 9" blade that will not see extreme hard use, and maintaining a keen edge is very desired, but the blade must still maintain a level of toughness and good to decent lateral strength, this blade will also not be a dedicated chopper, but may be called upon to do it every now and then...which steel would you go with??
 
I understand that 5160 is used for the couplings of railroad cars.

If it can take that, I'm thinking that it would do alright as a "tough" knife steel.

I have a several smaller (4-5") blades in 5160, and they sharpen easily, and hold a good edge.

A2 is great, but for what you describe, I'd go with 5160.
 
Two of my favorite steels, 5160 is so easy to use and resharpen that it probably fits your needs the best.
 
So, is A2 harder than 5160?

Is A2 a steel for a more specific application and 5160 more of a general purpose type steel?
 
Is this purely theoretical?

If you're making it we need to knowing if you are forging or if it will be stock removal.

If someone else is making it, have you talked to the maker about which steel he prefers for your application?
 
Is this purely theoretical?

If you're making it we need to knowing if you are forging or if it will be stock removal.

If someone else is making it, have you talked to the maker about which steel he prefers for your application?

I will be purchasing a knife in the near future made by Kelsey Creek, and was trying to make a final set in stone decision to stick with A2 or go with 5160. The knife will see some general type camp chores, chopping but not a ton, and I want the ability to keep a keen sharp edge for longer periods.
 
Well, dulling is just a very general term for edge damage, be it from rolling, blunting, chipping, abrasion, corrosion, etc. So, while one steel will hold its edge better than another in one type of use/conditions, it might not do as well when the use/conditions change.

This will be a tad over-simplified, because it does not go into how the steels have been heat treated or to what hardness. However--in general--A2 will be the more deformation resistant of the two; meaning the edge will be more stable and less likely to flatten, roll, dent, and so its dulling from those causes will be slower to come than it would in 5160. 5160, on the other hand, is the more ductile of the two; meaning its ability to take elastic deformation is higher, so when it encounters force that is beyond the strength of the steel, it will be more likely to roll, flatten, dent, etc. instead of chipping. It'll also be less likely to fracture if a hard lateral force or torque is applied to the blade (never adviseable but can happen in chopping, especially if you're tired). As such, it'll be slower to dull from this sort of edge damage.

So, A2 will likely be the better performer when it comes to push cutting and slicing, especially through hard materials, whereas 5160 will pull ahead in impact work, chopping, batoning, etc. Neither is stainless, possible edge degradation due to corrosion would be similar between them. A2 will have a higher abrasion resistance between the two, but that is only a serious concern if you're planning on cutting lots of abrasive material, like cardboard or rope.

Like I said, though, this is all extremely general. A2 is not what I would call brittle, especially relative to most stainless steels out there, and 5160 is certainly capable of serving well in non-impact cutting work. I have a 5160 skinner that was one of my first customs and it has worked its way through a lot of hide over the years, and I do believe I've seen an A2 ABS Competition cutter before. Proper heat treatment and correct blade/edge geometry factor in a whole lot more to the performance of the knife than the particular makeups of the alloys, especially in the case of these two steels.

However, since the geometries would be the same as they're being made to the same pattern, and assuming a good HT, then I'd say decide what your principle uses will be, and the general differences described above will suffice. If it's principally going to chop, go with 5160 and it'll handle the general stuff too. If it's principally going to used for non-impact work, go with the A2--and yes, it'll handle your occasional chopping needs just fine. Of course, if that latter were the case, I'd also go with a shorter blade, but personal preference.

Neither is perfect, but both steels are capable of handling the tasks you're planning to put them too. You'll be sharpening and fixing little dings whichever way you go.
 
I have a Bark River Northstar in A2 tool steel, and it's a wonderful knife. It holds an edge quite well. Certainly not as well as D2 tool steel, but far better in my experiences than 1095 or similar carbon steels.

Ben
 
Nice post.

However--in general--A2 will be the more deformation resistant of the two...

In terms of maximal hardness yes, but in general don't people run these steels at almost identical hardness?

Proper heat treatment and correct blade/edge geometry factor in a whole lot more to the performance of the knife than the particular makeups of the alloys, especially in the case of these two steels.

Yes and in particular, I would ask the maker how the steel is going to influence the design.

As for the edge holding, keeping a keen edge while doing what exactly?

-Cliff
 
In terms of maximal hardness yes, but in general don't people run these steels at almost identical hardness?
Oops...yes, and even though I started out by saying that I was not incorporating differences in hardness and HT, I went right ahead and assumed a couple points higher for the A2. If my entire brain ever fully engaged at once it would likely be a fascinating experience. 5160's greater elasticity still holds, though, as does A2's higher abrasion resistance, for whatever that's worth (most of my camp sites don't have miles of cardboard to cut, but then maybe we don't all camp the same way :D ).
 
Yes, there are differences, for that type of knife one of the major advantages to me would be ease of grinding 5160. Outdoors I find I sharpen due to accidental contacts or cutting dirty materials far more so than removing gradual wear. I would favor 5160 which would also be far cheaper.

-Cliff
 
I would only choose A2 if you can have it heat treated to 61-62 HRC. At lower hardness, edge retention of A2 isn't that good, probably not worth the trade-off in toughness compared to 5160.
 
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