a36 for an anvil, heat treat or not?

C

chad2

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sense i use 5160 almost exclusively i though that i need to get into the forging world of it. I am looking at getting some a36 steel to make an anvil out of.

My question is should i heat treat it or leave as is?

How should i ht it?
 
A36 is just a crappier grade of 1018 insufficient carbon to harden


4130 or 4140 would harden

There is also a grade of steel called 1045 HGP hardened ground and polished
It's used for shafting and available in large rounds.

ask for it at your scrapyard
 
My best understanding of A36 is that it's controlled more by performance constraints than chemical analysis. However, carbon content for the sizes you'd need to use is < .3%, and manganese is .6-.9%. Do you have a forge large enough to heat the face maybe 1" depth to critical? A method of handling? Then I'd imagine you would need a stock tank full of brine or superquench and a circulation pump to get much hardness out of it. However, I do know of some smiths using a fire hose to quench their 1045 block anvils.

How about finding a big old pavement breaker? Or a forklift tine? Both are usually true medium carbon (1045 or such), and depending on the section, heat treated.

Edit: Count has good points. He posted while I was busy fiddling around.
 
Brian Bazeal makes anvils like Sam's out of mild steel. The most imortand thing is to fasten it securely to the stand, and fasten the stand to the earth! The nice thing about an anvil like that is the dings can be ground out.
No need to harden it.
 
Well i was reading some where that a36 is miles better to use then cast iron, and there are cast iron anvils out there.

And i would be using a paragon kiln and do a long soak time. I guess my question is can you get a little more hardness from a36 with a heat treat
 
Brian Ayres said:
Brian Bazeal makes anvils like Sam's out of mild steel. The most imortand thing is to fasten it securely to the stand, and fasten the stand to the earth! The nice thing about an anvil like that is the dings can be ground out.
No need to harden it.
Click to expand...
Ok cool
 
Cheap anvils aren't cast iron ...they are cast steel .....big difference.

Some of the older anvils are wrought iron with a hardened steel top plate.

A block anvil will work if it has enough mass, and the face is smooth. It is better if hardened, but that takes equipment and procedures beyond the scale of most makers. If you find something big enough, it can work. A solid stand is important.

I regularly see small anvils for sale around Norfolk. Check the trading Post and Craig's List. Put a "Wanted to Buy - Anvil" add in both. Other finds can be had at the local scrap yards.

At Daniel Boone's Pasture Party each spring, there are dozens of anvils for sale in the tailgaiting area.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/825297-Pasture-Party-Pics

Give me a call or email if you want, I can loan you an anvil until you get one that works for you.
We never did get together and let me see your shop.
 
Last edited:
bladsmth said:
Cheap anvils aren't cast iron ...they are cast steel .....big difference.

Some of the older anvils are wrought iron with a hardened steel top plate.

A block anvil will work if it has enough mass, and the face is smooth. It is better if hardened, but that takes equipment and procedures beyond the scale of most makers. If you find something big enough, it can work. A solid stand is important.

I regularly see small anvils for sale around Norfolk. Check the trading Post and Craig's List. Put a "Wanted to Buy - Anvil" add in both. Other finds can be had at the local scrap yards.

At Daniel Boone's Pasture Party each spring, there are dozens of anvils for sale in the tailgaiting area.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/825297-Pasture-Party-Pics

Give me a call or email if you want, I can loan you an anvil until you get one that works for you.
We never did get together and let me see your shop.
Click to expand...

Awesome man. We just moved and my family was away for a month and a half so i threw all my stuff together to start working on knives while i had the time. Also are in limbo with the military housing because of mold in the house, so we maybe moving again. It sucks but we will get together maybe a couple of months i will definantly get a hold of you. And thankyou
 
chad2 said:
Well i was reading some where that a36 is miles better to use then cast iron, and there are cast iron anvils out there.

And i would be using a paragon kiln and do a long soak time. I guess my question is can you get a little more hardness from a36 with a heat treat
Click to expand...


That's like saying an A36 knife blade would be better than a cast iron one. That may be so, but it's not saying much. You'll be wasting your time trying to harden an anvil out of that. Superquenching might work ok to get a little hardening in thin sections of mild steel, but an anvil is tough to harden sufficiently even when made of high carbon or tool steel.

I'd let Stacy help you find a real anvil. Looks as if that's what you are doing at any rate, I wish you luck in finding something that fits your needs.
 
Brian Ayres said:
Brian Bazeal makes anvils like Sam's out of mild steel. The most imortand thing is to fasten it securely to the stand, and fasten the stand to the earth! The nice thing about an anvil like that is the dings can be ground out.
No need to harden it.
Click to expand...

You mean i make anvils like Brian does! he made it first :D

A36 is OK for an anvil if you cannot get a real anvil. Like Brian says, dings can be ground out or filled with regular weld then ground out.

Count you are incorrect, A36 can indeed harden, not hardening like we are used to with real tool steels but hard enough to be better/tougher then it's unhardened state, and brittle enough to snap. try it firsthand, take a piece of known a36, and quench in water at a high yellow heat then snap it off in the vise.

But for an anvil I would not bother, it will work harden mildly overtime.
 
Everyone gave good advise. Either use it as is, ala Brazeal or Lively, or buy a different material if you really want to harden it (and have the facilities to do so).

I did want to clarify one thing. Sometimes A36 could harden sufficiently to achieve additional rebound and durability, and other times it would not. It's a complete crapshoot because the alloy content is not strictly controlled. A36 at its BEST is on the edge for this use (when at the high end of allowed carbon and manganese). This would put it at between 1026-1030 and it would be able to reach a surface hardness of 45-50 RC if EVERYTHING was done perfectly. So, saying that it is a crappier version of 1018 really isn't true. Since its composition isn't controlled it might be like crappy 1018, or it could be like crappy 1030. ;-)
 
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