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Do the AAA&AA Lithiums really last 8 times longer than alkaline? I would expect it to be a few times longer. Also are these ok to use in a typical flashlight?
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AAA & AA Lithium batteries?
- Thread starter jaymeister99
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Skrapmetal
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Energizer Ultimate lithium AA's are 2900 mah (milliamp hour)... very high compared to other AA's. I would think they could damage older electronics.
What do you consider a typical flashlight? I use them in all of my good flashlights (Jetbeam, Fenix, etc) without issue. They don't last eight times longer in those, but they do last longer and have higher output.
What do you consider a typical flashlight? I use them in all of my good flashlights (Jetbeam, Fenix, etc) without issue. They don't last eight times longer in those, but they do last longer and have higher output.
They lasted 12 hours in my gerber infinity. I've run that light to 140 hours on a single duracell pro cell. http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/index.php?showtopic=44197
Skrapmetal
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My guess is the Infinity isn't regulated, so the lithiums burned themselves up quickly...?
They definitely last longer in my higher end lights. I haven't tried them in my gerber tx3.0, though... might have to test and compare now.
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I believe the "8 times longer" refers to storage time, not burn time. For lights that sit around, e.g. in emergency kits, Lithium cells will last 10+ years with very little drain. Alkalines will have bled into your cell housing and ruined your light long before then. As u812 also notes, alkalines lose power pretty significantly as the temperature drops, even just down into the 50s F (10C), while Liths hold their charge down below 0 deg. F (-18C).
Of course if you're talking about an EDC light, Lith vs. alky probably makes little difference. But if you burn through your batteries pretty often then you're better off with Sanyo Eneloop NiMH rechargeables anyway.
Of course if you're talking about an EDC light, Lith vs. alky probably makes little difference. But if you burn through your batteries pretty often then you're better off with Sanyo Eneloop NiMH rechargeables anyway.
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That 8 times cant be storage. The expirations on the packaging is 5 years or so longer than the alkaline. 8 times longer would mean a storage life of around 40+ years! 
But they definitely last way longer than alkaline. I have an old Tekna Monolith with a CR123 battery. Its had the same battery in it for over 15 years and its still going!
I was planning on using these for the "junk drawer" flashlight and a backpacking flashlight. I'm about to replace my old Minimag AA and Mag 2D lights with LED Minimags and possibly a Maglite XL50 or one of the many made by Fenix.
But they definitely last way longer than alkaline. I have an old Tekna Monolith with a CR123 battery. Its had the same battery in it for over 15 years and its still going!I was planning on using these for the "junk drawer" flashlight and a backpacking flashlight. I'm about to replace my old Minimag AA and Mag 2D lights with LED Minimags and possibly a Maglite XL50 or one of the many made by Fenix.
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Give better power, much lighter, longer shelf life, etc.
The best part is- they won't LEAK like alkalines can. I've lost 2 maglites to acid corrosion after alkalines leaked. I'm not going to risk that with a good light.
The best part is- they won't LEAK like alkalines can. I've lost 2 maglites to acid corrosion after alkalines leaked. I'm not going to risk that with a good light.
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That 8 times cant be storage. The expirations on the packaging is 5 years or so longer than the alkaline. 8 times longer would mean a storage life of around 40+ years!
Doh! Good point.
Maybe "8 years longer" -- the storage life listing on Liths seems more conservative than for alk cells...It's hard to quantify a chemistry as better or worse. It actually depends on the situation.
In low drain applications, the lithiums have no advantage over standard alkalines. Examples include the Gerber IU and remote controls.
In high drain applications, lithiums have a huge advantage over alkalines. Examples include digital cameras, high-power flashlights, and GPS units.
Alkaline cells slowly drop off in voltage as they get used. Lithium cells continue to put out nearly full voltage until they are nearly dead, and then they quickly lose voltage. This is especially noticeable in older film-based cameras with flash: the more shots you take with flash with alkalines, the longer the flash takes to charge. On lithium cells, the flash charges very quickly until the batteries need replacing. The way the voltage drops on a cell as it is discharged is known as the discharge curve.
Alkalines are not very good in high-drain applications. They "bounce back" slowly (the phenomenon where an alkaline will seem to be almost dead until you shut off the appliance and turn it on awhile later) and cannot sustain high loads for long periods of time.
In flashlights, we often measure runtime until the light dims to 50% of the full output. In tests such as these, the lithiums will have a very big advantage due to their discharge curve, at least in the higher powered flashlights. If you measure runtime to 10% of the full output (as the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard states), alkalines will often have a big advantage (especially in partially or unregulated lights), since they gradually drop in brightness over time.
Compare these three discharge graphs, provided by Selfbuilt, a popular reviewer on CPF:
Keep in mind that this is a HIGH DRAIN application and all of the lights here have output regulation circuitry. Note that the regulators struggle to maintain a high output on the alkalines.
(As a side note, if you want to see how a fully regulated vs. an unregulated light performs on alkalines: regulated and unregulated. Keep in mind that the regulated light in this example starts out nearly twice as bright (1200 lux vs. 650 lux). The regulated light in this example is a particularly fine example because once the regulator cannot maintain full voltage it drops smoothly into an unregulated mode, which ensures that you are not left abruptly in the dark.)
As you can see, lithiums (L91) have a great runtime. But also note that good NiMH cells (in this case, Sanyo Eneloop brand) perform very well and are rechargeable. Which brings me to my next point.
In AA and AAA form factors, if you plan on going through a lot of batteries, a good quality NiMH (or an LSD NiMH if you plan to store the gadget for awhile) will save you a lot of money and perform nearly as well as the expensive disposable lithiums.
In low drain applications, the lithiums have no advantage over standard alkalines. Examples include the Gerber IU and remote controls.
In high drain applications, lithiums have a huge advantage over alkalines. Examples include digital cameras, high-power flashlights, and GPS units.
Alkaline cells slowly drop off in voltage as they get used. Lithium cells continue to put out nearly full voltage until they are nearly dead, and then they quickly lose voltage. This is especially noticeable in older film-based cameras with flash: the more shots you take with flash with alkalines, the longer the flash takes to charge. On lithium cells, the flash charges very quickly until the batteries need replacing. The way the voltage drops on a cell as it is discharged is known as the discharge curve.
Alkalines are not very good in high-drain applications. They "bounce back" slowly (the phenomenon where an alkaline will seem to be almost dead until you shut off the appliance and turn it on awhile later) and cannot sustain high loads for long periods of time.
In flashlights, we often measure runtime until the light dims to 50% of the full output. In tests such as these, the lithiums will have a very big advantage due to their discharge curve, at least in the higher powered flashlights. If you measure runtime to 10% of the full output (as the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard states), alkalines will often have a big advantage (especially in partially or unregulated lights), since they gradually drop in brightness over time.
Compare these three discharge graphs, provided by Selfbuilt, a popular reviewer on CPF:
Keep in mind that this is a HIGH DRAIN application and all of the lights here have output regulation circuitry. Note that the regulators struggle to maintain a high output on the alkalines.
(As a side note, if you want to see how a fully regulated vs. an unregulated light performs on alkalines: regulated and unregulated. Keep in mind that the regulated light in this example starts out nearly twice as bright (1200 lux vs. 650 lux). The regulated light in this example is a particularly fine example because once the regulator cannot maintain full voltage it drops smoothly into an unregulated mode, which ensures that you are not left abruptly in the dark.)
As you can see, lithiums (L91) have a great runtime. But also note that good NiMH cells (in this case, Sanyo Eneloop brand) perform very well and are rechargeable. Which brings me to my next point.
In AA and AAA form factors, if you plan on going through a lot of batteries, a good quality NiMH (or an LSD NiMH if you plan to store the gadget for awhile) will save you a lot of money and perform nearly as well as the expensive disposable lithiums.
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I use rechargeable Lithium ion batteries in my large lights. In my small lights I use Eneloop Ni metal hydride rechargeables. The Eneloops come in AA and AAA. The rechargeable Lithium battery that works best is the 18650. The smaller Li ion batteries are not especially reliable.
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My general advice is:
Batteries that get used: Eneloops - these will work out MUCH cheaper.
Batteries for long term storage (emergency) use: Lithium batteries.
Here the Energiser Lithium batteries cost more than Sanyo Eneloops and though they run for a while they will eventually run out of power and have to be replaced. Eneloops can be recharged as required and used for several years, their low self discharge makes them MUCH better than standard NiMH cells for standby purposes.
Batteries that get used: Eneloops - these will work out MUCH cheaper.
Batteries for long term storage (emergency) use: Lithium batteries.
Here the Energiser Lithium batteries cost more than Sanyo Eneloops and though they run for a while they will eventually run out of power and have to be replaced. Eneloops can be recharged as required and used for several years, their low self discharge makes them MUCH better than standard NiMH cells for standby purposes.