About Damascus Blades

bulgron

bulgron

Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
12,709
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but here goes anyway.

I was doing some research last night into the history of steel for a personal project I'm working on. Anyway, I inevitably stumbled onto the history of damascus steel production. In particular, I was looking at this page, which was apparently written by a German fellow who is, if my guess is correct, some kind of a material's scientist.

Anyway, he mentions that there's a lot of confusion and differing interpretations about what is meant by "damascene technique." He then goes on to discuss the history of damascene techniques, and he talks about the differing manufacturing process, at least insofar as he understands them.

Apparently, historically damascene techniques involved welding two different steels together to arrive at a blade that had the happy characteristics of both metals. But, surprisingly, this fellow says that "true" damascene blades were made from wootz steel only (a high quality steel from India), and that the striation pattern of these legendary blades was from precipitation of materials, instead of from mixing two different steels together.

Naturally I started thinking about the damascus blades that come on some Chris Reeve sebenzas, which I've always thought were beautiful; too beautiful to use. That, combined with the added expense of the damascus steel has always caused me to shy away from it.

I did a little research, and discovered Devin Thomas is the fellow who makes most of CRK's damascus steel. He makes damascus by combining steels, but I can't tell from his website if he uses forge welding or some other technique to make his steel.

Still, it seems like this steel might be worthy of more than safe queen decoration status.

So my question is, does anyone out there have a sebbie with a damascus blade that you use hard? By that, I mean you aren't shy to use it for all the cutting tasks you might ask of a lesser-priced knife? And, if so, how well does it stand up to your daily tasks?

Note that I've been known to use my sebbie for everything from prying staples off of cardboard boxes, to scouring sheetrock, to stripping insulation from wire.

In his FAQ section, Mr. Thomas says he doesn't know if his damascus steel is better than single steel. From his answer to the question, I imagine it depends on which particular blend Mr. Thomas has put together versus the actual single steel that it was being compared against, but even at that he says that no major testing has ever been done. I guess for my purpose here, I have to wonder if the Damascus steel you can purchase with a sebenza compares favorable to the default S30V that these knives usually come with.

My big problem is that I really like beautiful, dramatic knives. But I also don't like knives that sit in a safe collecting dust. One of these days I'm going to buy a large sebenza. When I do, would I be a fool to purchase a damascus blade (all price considerations aside), knowing that my large will have to work just as hard as my small, and some of the things I might ask it to do will boarder on abuse?

Thoughts? Rants? Real world experience?
 
Devin does indeed use forge-welding to produce his damascus, as do most makers. To avoid confusion I usually call my damascus pattern-welded, but it is common to use the term damascus for pattern-welded steel Wootz is very uncommon and there are few makers who produce it.
As far as damascus for using, it depends on the compatability of the two metals used in the damascus. If they are compatable in heat treatment and still different enough to show the pattern then the blade should be suitable to use as a monosteel blade.
Thanks
Del
 
Some of my damascus Sebenzas I use, the ones that have damascus that is relatively easy to find. Although, one large classic with a basketweave damascus blade I use frequently cutting vines in the yard. However, I seldom use any of my knives "really hard.
 
Just ordered a carbon steel Damascus blade for my small Sebbie. This is my EDC in an office/warehouse environment so I don't expect any great usage issues . . . but it sure is attractive.
 
I'm in the same boat as you Bulgron. I love my large Sebbie, and use it for what ever it needs using for (light prying included.) I want a Damascus Sebbie, but I wonder how the Damascus stacks up to S30V. Also my knives see lots of cardboard, so I would like to know if they mark up easy?
 
The basketweave damascus doesn't have large dark colored areas. I can't see any rub marks on it.

OTOH, I sometimes perfer a damascus blade that has pattern with good relief but almost no difference in brightness/color. You can gently remove the dark color with soemthing like Simichrome polish. Unless you are cutting something really abrasive that would scratch the metal, I don't think you would see the wear qhen the blade is virtually all the same color. One of my small regular Sebenzas has a stainless ladder damascus blade. I've rubbed most of the dark color off the blade with Simichrome and regular use. But, I don't see scratches in the steel.
 
Terminology has been a problem . True Wootz steel should be called Wootz not damascus !! You could also refer to it's dendritic [as cast] structure.but I seem to be the only one to want that !! Damascus as you see in the Sebenza is often called folded steel or pattern welded steel. To confuse things we have a 'damascus' stainless steel that has been made by using metal powders. The folded steel blade performance depends on what steels are used.To make it simple low carbon +low carbon will give low performance. Low carbon+ high carbon will give medium performance .High carbon+high carbon will give high prerformance !!
 
You could ask CRK to make a damascus blade for one of your Sebenzas. It's not cheap, but you would be out less money than buying a whole new Sebanza with a damascus blade.
 
mete said:
Terminology has been a problem . True Wootz steel should be called Wootz not damascus !! You could also refer to it's dendritic [as cast] structure.but I seem to be the only one to want that !! Damascus as you see in the Sebenza is often called folded steel or pattern welded steel. To confuse things we have a 'damascus' stainless steel that has been made by using metal powders. The folded steel blade performance depends on what steels are used.To make it simple low carbon +low carbon will give low performance. Low carbon+ high carbon will give medium performance .High carbon+high carbon will give high prerformance !!
Click to expand...

Have you used the Devin Thomas stainless damascus?
 
No I have not used Devlin's stainless. Yes there is real stainless damascus [rare] and powder stainless.
 
Rich357 said:
You could ask CRK to make a damascus blade for one of your Sebenzas. It's not cheap, but you would be out less money than buying a whole new Sebanza with a damascus blade.
Click to expand...

Ah, but I have only one Sebenza (a small) and I desire another Sebenza (a large). The question is, how fancy will this large Sebenza be? :D

I continue to lean away from Damascus steel, any knife of mine is going to be a user, but I could be swayed back if someone posted the right review of the steel.
 
If I read it correctly, according to Damasteel's website the pattern in their 'powder steel Damascus' is caused by mixing and forging the various steels after casting, the pattern is not in the powder mix.
This means that it is virtually the same process as any other hammer forged Damascus, just using powder metallurgy to form the initial steels.
They have a lot of info on their site, look it up if interested.
Greg
 
Here's is a something I posted a while back and still feel the same way...

Damascus is old school, going back thousands of years. The modern technique of making it far surpasses ancient times. Figure you're taking two high quality steels(in this case stainless) and welding them together while folding and re-folding them. This makes the steel hundreds of times stronger then conventional blades. Far more than is needed for a knife blade. The Damascus is then etched with faric(?) cloride, a kind of acid that brings out the pattern. Very hard to ware off, and would take an awful long time. I have many Damascus blades withOUT clear coating that I've used for years, none of which shows any signs of ware or fading of the etching. The beauty of it is; once there is sign of ware, it can be brought back to new with a quick re-etch.
Chris Reeve has even more protected the pattern etch by the addition of his clear coat Kalguard. Not only does completely protect the steel from any type of corrosion and scratching but also gives the Damascus a slight polished look. Not bright mind you, but a kind of really cool glow.
Any Sebenza I get I try for a Damascus blade(stainless that is). I'll try and limit my babble a this point by just saying; I can't say enough about the preformance of Devon Thomas's stainless Damascus. It holds an outstanding edge, is easily sharpened, and I've never...ever had a corrosion(rust) or any other problems. Too include chipping of the edge which you see all too much in the CPM steels(S30V).
Anyone here have the opportunity to pick up a Sebenza with Damascus, I highly recommend it!

The picture below is a small classic with ladder pattern SS Damascus. I've used it to whittle more sticks than I can count. The blade has is still factory sharp and never been resharpened. USE THIS STEEL!!

sebbox.jpg
 
If you bought a large Sebenza with a damascus blade and it didn't work well for you, you could have CRK install a new S30V blade. The knife wouldn't be a total loss.

I've gotten a few scratches in my S30V blades from cutting cardboard. I'm sure cutting things that will scratch the S30V will likely put scratches in the damascus. I was chacking my stainless basketweave damascus blade and if I look really carefully, with the light at the right angle, I can see a few fine scratches. I've cut cardboard with it and other things, mostly some small vines that need to be trimmed back frequently.

Even thought I usually carry a knife, I seldom have a need to use one. At lease not in a hard use way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top