? about small fighting hawks

mc5aw

mc5aw

Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
295
Looking for input from folks experienced with "fighting" hawks <12" (RMJ Jenny Wren, CRKT Rune, etc.) ... Is there still enough length and weight behind a small hawk to make it effective for chopping, hacking, etc.? It seems that <12" is the point of no return where the hawk becomes more knife than hawk. I'm speaking specifically to tomahawks rather than small hatchets and camp axes. I'm considering a small hawk for my BOB and am weighing the practicality vs. something longer/heavier. Thanks in advance for any info.
 
It depends on what your BOB is for-combat or wilderness survival. For wilderness survival, I would carry a 2 1/4 lb Boys Axe with a 26-28" straight haft. If that haft length was a problem, I would carry the same axe with a 19" straight haft.
 
I have a 12" RMJ Ragnarok that's very light in the hand and can be wielded as quickly as a large knife. Very tough, but doesn't have the head weight for hard chopping. I also have a 9 1/2" oal tomahawk from Hardcore Hardware that is built like a tank, with .31 thick D2, that is a pretty effective chopper. With such a short handle, just have to be careful your hand doesn't hit what you're trying to hit with the blade. Either one would be good in an urban BOB.
 
Isn't Hardcore those guys that made carpenter hatchets with the pre worn toes we discussed here a few years ago?
BTW I have no idea what BOB stands for so I Googled it.....o_O.
 
BOB = Bug Out Bag

A bag prepared to grab and go in an EOTWAWKI situation. AKA - my daily carry back pack.
 
My BOB is very much urban ... if I end up in the wilderness, I will most certainly have an axe. As currently outfitted, my BOB has the basics: sidearm with ammo/spare mags, knife, IFAK, poncho/tarp, canteen, fire starter, etc. My interest in a small hawk would be more for breaching or CQB than fieldcraft. I don't want to give up head weight for hawk length if I don't have to, and from my research it doesn't seem that anything < 12" has enough top heaviness to be effective. I don't want to exceed 12"-15" as anything beyond that is too heavy for what I want. Everything is a trade-off ...
 
I can see the advantages, tho all those points and angles(depending on model) could be a liability. The personal 'hawks are not going to be really efficient choppers, this is simple physics. My main concerns with the small 'hawks in CQB settings are the lack of weight with subsequent loss of penetration, and lack of length and subsequent loss of leverage. Also, the shorter length defeats the purpose of an extension weapon, requiring a closer-than-I-personally-like engagement. They are fast in the hand, no doubt, but there is no real point to focus a thrust, and most have a relatively short edge. All that being said, I must admit that I am giving serious thought to purchasing the Boker Chicken Hawk for myself. Hate to think I am too set in my ways. Thinking primarily of home defense, as a back-up to a 12ga pump shotgun. I carry a .45 for urban social work. I also have a hammer-polled 'hawk, as well as a crash-ax for more utilitarian tasks.

If you want one, get one. I can't tell you what is going to work for you.
 
garry3 said:
Thanks Square Peg. But you know I had to google EOTWAWKI .:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I knew you would have to but I couldn't resist!
401357558-rofl.gif
 
I was a breacher for a SWAT team in LA for eight years, hitting at least a house a week, and I don't ever remember hitting a target location and thinking a small hawk or hatchet would be just the tool I needed to make entry. We used large rams, hydraulic presses and Haligan pry tools, none of which will fit in your BOB.
Justjed is right, physics dont lie. I think the romance of a breaching axe has been oversold.
As for using it as a CQB weapon, not my area of expertise.
 
As I see it, the only reason for breaching is to get into someplace that someone else doesn't want you to get into. For LEO's, this is usually executing a search warrant. For a regular citizen, even in an emergency, this sounds more like Breaking & Entering, and would likely result in prosecution. Or outright death, if the occupant decided he didn't really like you invading his personal space.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in a true EOTWAWKI situation, most of us, even the really prepared souls, are going to die just like the ones who didn't prepare. I understand thinking, and hoping, that you're going to be one of the (un)lucky few who do survive. But, is starving to death, or (more likely) getting beaten to death by gangs in a post-apocalyptic wasteland really better than going out in the first wave? And do you really think there will be enough technical people left to get things up and running again? No electricity, no running water, no communications. And, for the first few months, the SMELL is going to be gawd-awful...
 
Here's a thought, tho. One of the primary advantages of a traditional tomahawk is the ease of putting a new handle on it. What's wrong with getting a traditional style hammer-polled, or spike 'hawk, and a spare handle or two(or more, if you want to throw it). Cut one handle down to about twelve inches, and you now have a traditional style tactical fighting 'hawk and light breaching tool. If it doesn't work for you, just put it back on the longer handle.
 
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gunfiter said:
I was a breacher for a SWAT team in LA for eight years, hitting at least a house a week, and I don't ever remember hitting a target location and thinking a small hawk or hatchet would be just the tool I needed to make entry. We used large rams, hydraulic presses and Haligan pry tools, none of which will fit in your BOB.
Justjed is right, physics dont lie. I think the romance of a breaching axe has been oversold.
As for using it as a CQB weapon, not my area of expertise.
Click to expand...

The 2lb breaching tool you have with you is 100x better than the hydraulic press you forgot to throw in your backpack :p
 
When I mentioned breaching, I was referring to having to get in or out of somewhere during an emergency situation, NOT breaking and entering. Think of an earthquake or hurricane where a person is trapped and has to hack, bash, break, etc. his way out of debris. I have found an advantage with most traditional forged hawks in that the head weight is considerably more than the wood shaft, thus the idea of cutting one back sounds like a good idea. Can't do that with a unibody hawk.
 
justjed said:
As I see it, the only reason for breaching is to get into someplace that someone else doesn't want you to get into. For LEO's, this is usually executing a search warrant. For a regular citizen, even in an emergency, this sounds more like Breaking & Entering, and would likely result in prosecution. Or outright death, if the occupant decided he didn't really like you invading his personal space.
Click to expand...

In a true EOTWAWKI situation I would have no problem with B&E to get food or needed supplies for my family.


justjed said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in a true EOTWAWKI situation, most of us, even the really prepared souls, are going to die just like the ones who didn't prepare.
Click to expand...

Certainly true. But it's human nature to plan and hope. And preparing relieves stress.

Really solid foraging skills are infinitely better than having a bunker filled with food. Food can be stolen. Skills cannot be. Same goes for any other subject. In the end skills beat supplies every time. Still, it don't hurt to be well supplied. ;)
 
Park Swan said:
The 2lb breaching tool you have with you is 100x better than the hydraulic press you forgot to throw in your backpack :p
Click to expand...

100% True.
Personally, I'm lazy. I wouldn't carry a 2lb hawk in the hopes of needing to beach something. I would rather carry something I'd use on a regular basis and use that if the need arose.
And I'm NOT saying a hawk can't breach, just that there must be tools that have more general applications that can be (almost) as effective to use. YMMV
I do know that Boeing 757's still have crash axes mounted in the cockpit.
 
mc5aw said:
When I mentioned breaching, I was referring to having to get in or out of somewhere during an emergency situation, NOT breaking and entering. Think of an earthquake or hurricane where a person is trapped and has to hack, bash, break, etc. his way out of debris. I have found an advantage with most traditional forged hawks in that the head weight is considerably more than the wood shaft, thus the idea of cutting one back sounds like a good idea. Can't do that with a unibody hawk.
Click to expand...
Head weight is what does work. Handle weight just slows it down. And a few inches of a wooden handle costs very little as far as adding overall weight. A few ounces would mean very little to a axe from a twelve to a eighteen inch haft and you would gain a lot of power. I wonder how those flat stock hawks would compare in a side by side test with this Council tool "Personal Fire Axe"? It would be an easy decision for me. I would hang it on a rigers axe straight haft and come in at about seventeen inches.
https://www.amazon.com/Council-Tool-Personal-Fire-Axe/dp/B00A3CUF6O
 
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