about swords, & " long khukuris"

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
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Something that has bothering me for awhile and I want to get it off my chest. I read too many threads recently about the chopping durability of HI "swords".

I recall many old posts regarding the chopping "use" of the HI katana's, tarwar, 25 inch + sirupatis and kobras, and the other sword type products.

Uncle Bill had said numeruos times they are not made for chopping !

I feel many people have not heard this. The HI guarntee does not apply for chopping with these blades!

There,,,,,,...now I hope it sinks in. ;)
 
Which reminds me of the longer Kobras; The Kamis called them swords and thought we'd try to use them as khuks and break them. Bill always cautioned that a Kobra was not like the other khuks, it could not do the work of one. Neither can a sword do the work of a Khuk. What Satori shows us is just how strong the HI swords are- if you ever needed to count on one.





munk
 
I can't help but imagine that this is at least partially directed against me.

FWIW, I make it a point to say "Don't do this with your sword," or something similar, someplace in my posts. Early on I didn't and I now realize that that was irresponsible. I try to be a little more careful these days.

I've sometimes wondered how much trouble I've unknowingly caused for Yangdu in the past with my rants and raves - "Satori's sword didn't bend in half on this tree but mine did! I want a refund!". Please, people, take what I say and do with a grain of salt. There are many people that have lots to say about me but they seldom say that I'm smart. If I ever broke a sword splitting wood I sure as hell wouldn't ask for a refund. (That is, unless the manufacturer specifically stated that chopping wood is fine, which no sword manufacturer to my knowledge has done thus far.)

It goes without saying that if my antics ever do cause a problem (or, God forbid, get someone besides me hurt) one need only mention it and they will stop. Permanently.

Thanks, Sams.
 
no way against you!!!

Yes ther is a person I'm a bit peeved about, but it has beeen two months or more. I did not not respond sooner because I get too worked up and would like to jump on an airplane and discuss it person. Munk knows me and I am a no B. S. man.
 
Dave Rishar said:
I can't help but imagine that this is at least partially directed against me.

FWIW, I make it a point to say "Don't do this with your sword," or something similar, someplace in my posts. Early on I didn't and I now realize that that was irresponsible. I try to be a little more careful these days.

I've sometimes wondered how much trouble I've unknowingly caused for Yangdu in the past with my rants and raves - "Satori's sword didn't bend in half on this tree but mine did! I want a refund!". Please, people, take what I say and do with a grain of salt. There are many people that have lots to say about me but they seldom say that I'm smart. If I ever broke a sword splitting wood I sure as hell wouldn't ask for a refund. (That is, unless the manufacturer specifically stated that chopping wood is fine, which no sword manufacturer to my knowledge has done thus far.)

It goes without saying that if my antics ever do cause a problem (or, God forbid, get someone besides me hurt) one need only mention it and they will stop. Permanently.

Thanks, Sams.


Yeah, it's Dave's fault! Yeah, that's the ticket! I chopped down an old cinder block bridge with my Napoleon Sword, and after just two dozen 50 pound blocks, the damned edge chipped! What kinda gimmick is HI trying to pull anyway!! :mad: I should report this to the Nepal Better Business Bureau!

I demand a refund! :rolleyes:

Seriously, I have to hand it to Dave, as he is fearless when testing his blades to almost near destruction. I saw him pound chunks of cinder block with his Salyan and a FF, and they came out amazingly unscathed. (The knives, not the cinder blocks!)

I think everyone knows (as Munk said) that Dave is just doing the extreme testing no one else is willing to do, especially as no one wants to scratch up their pretty knife!

But I know Sams was not directing this at Dave, and his point is well taken. Some folks don't seem to know where to draw the line between tool and weapon.

Reminds me of our next door neighbor growing up, who would come over and borrow my Dad's tools. First he ruined an entire set of woodboring bits drilling into concrete and rebar, and then he borrowed a new Stanley wood surform to polish out the top of his chrome plated steel gearshift lever. The next time he came around my Dad sent him packing.

He used to say that there is no way to foolproof something, no matter how well made, against someone who is bound and determined to be a fool.

I would have to agree...

N.
 
Dave Rishar said:
I can't help but imagine that this is at least partially directed against me.

That's what I was thinking!
But then, I bent my 25" gelbu cutting bamboo, not chopping wood. I do consider the longer ones weapons and not meant for chopping wood.
They can chop into a body, but I don't recommend anything harder than that.

Despite the desires of some people, khukuris WERE designed as weapons to be used against flesh and armor, thousands of years ago. The wood-cutting usage is a relatively modern idea, I submit.
That is why they are unique. Even stone-age man knew to use a smaller, wider, wedge-shaped blade for wood. (the axe)
99% of the world's cultures used axes for cutting wood.
The use of a long knife for wood cutting is somewhat rare.
There are a few examples, but not many.

Even in the bible you will find examples of people carrying swords and yet, when it comes time to cut wood, they use an axe.

Perhaps we should ask Yangdu to clarify which products are not covered against wood-chopping damage.
 
I'm glad Sam's brought this up. Dave is great with his stories and reviews, but Yangdu and HI is not responsble for damage to swords that people have been treating as khuks.

It reminds me of what Dean Grennell said when he souped up a 45 acp in a Ruger.
"Are you sure you ought to do that?" His peer asked, "that's cast metal, you know."

"Yes, but it's Ruger cast metal"

So, HI stuff is strong. HI swords will do amazing things. But don't treat them like crobars. It's not right. I do know for a fact Dave Rishar would not want you to. I've winced at some of Dave's antics...and you all know I'm a user of these wonderful tools.

As for Sams, say again I'm just so glad he brought this up and yes he is a man who says what he means. I wish Sams was my neighbor. I guess he is- here.

Sams- you wouldn't believe the flock of wild turkeys that roosts behind my house on the mountain. If I go out late and turn on a porch light, they actually squawk, 'turn out that da--ned light."

munk
 
Danny, I'm behind you on this one; bamboo is a legitimate sword target in some cultures...one of which uses long, thin swords that were optimized for slicing (not chopping) and weren't known for the high quality of steel that was used to build them. I've actually been considering trying some dry bamboo, never mind the green stuff. It is a challenging target from what I've been told, though, and I've heard stories of very fine swords losing to the bamboo.

I'll admit that I get a little carried away sometimes but I have high standards. A sword is not built to chop wood, but depending on the culture and design a sword may have had to take on things even worse than this. If you ever get the chance, take a look through the Codex Wallerstein, Ringeck's (or Lichtenauer's) material, or any of the other fechtbuchs. A German longsword was expected to cut, stab, deliver "murder strokes" (swinging the sword by the blade, using the guard as the head of a hammer), and strike opponents with the pommel - all without breaking or losing too much of the edge to be able to cut. (I'd expect some blunting on hard armor, but not excessive blunting. It still has to cut afterwards.) We're not talking longswords here, granted, but these were not twenty pound sharpened crowbars either. It can be done. It was done. And, it seems, in Nepal it's still being done. I appreciate this.

It's important to remember that stress-testing sharp objects, much like stress-testing firearms, can be a lot like rocket science - if you do too much too fast without understanding what's going on, there will be an occasional explosion on the launch pad. I'm probably being a bit irresponsible with my videos; I'm seldom wearing protective gear, I'm doing things that constitute gross abuse, etc. What you don't see is that I've already done the test several times in the past (and know that I'm not exceeding the design limitations) and I'm prepared to eat the cost of the product if I take things too far. Manufacturers who offer excellent warranties can do so only if their customers are responsible enough not to make unreasonable demands. If I destroy a khukuri by chopping bricks with it, I would not ask Yangdu to pay for it. I'm going to pay for it, because khukuris are not made to chop bricks and I can reasonably be expected to know this.

It is nice to know that it can be done, though. ;)

It's also worth noting that damage that would worry some doesn't necessarily bother me. If you chop on things that are harder than the blade you will damage it, period. Even if it's softer, if the edge isn't properly presented you will again damage it. Dings, nicks, rolls and the like don't concern me - the next time that the blade is on the belt sander, they will be gone. If I had to hone all this stuff out by hand I'd be a whole lot more careful about what I was swinging at. :)

Look at it this way: I do these things so that no one else has to. Your HI swords and khukuris are made well and are very nice. They don't deserve to be treated like this.

Sams, whether you're talking to me or not, I won't take offense to it. You're right, after all, and it's worth mentioning.
 
I hate dry bamboo, I really do. The green stuff is actually really easy to cut, you just need a sharp blade with a sensible edge thickness and you're all set, thinner ones go through it like it's not even there. The old dry stuff though... even razor sharp machetes just bounce off them if you don't get the cut lined up properly. I made it a point after having to trim some large (20-30 foot long) stalks of bamboo with lots of "branches" that had been sitting near the scrap pile for the better part of a year to make sure to break them down while they're still easy to cut :mad:
 
Not disagreeing with the premise, but to be fair to the people who haven't known, expectations may come partially from the Yahoo part of the website...

"Light but still strong enough to do a heavy day's work." is in the description of both the 25" and 30" Sirupati.

And, the HI Katana is listed as: "This katana has been tested by experts and rated tough as nails. This is not a Japanese katana clone but the Everest Katana. For people who love swords and use them heavily. See test results in HI forum."

And in the forum, there are a couple posts that would lead people to think the other way...like this one:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269172&highlight=Chitlangi+chop

Of the Khukuris, only the 18" Kobra provides any durability caveat (the 20" and 25" don't)... and it is only:

"Note: Cannot be used as a substitute prybar like the Ang Khola."

There is also nothing delineating models or length in the testing portion of the FAQ.
 
25-30" Siru: when I mentioned beating some of my khuks like rented donkeys, the 30" Siru was one of them. I took on an old Chevy truck with mine. It far surpassed my expectations. The spine is quite thick on mine and I wouldn't hesitate to use it hard.

HI kat: what is hard use for a sword? The worst that I did to mine was chopping up plywood but it can handle more than this.

Kobra: good point.

FAQ: good point.

Come to think of it, all of the descriptions on the website are more or less outdated. Perhaps it is time to update them? Between the influx of new models and the amount of raw talent that you guys have, I can't think of a better time than now.
 
I was one who posted about the durability of the HI swords, and I wouldnt expect a replacement if I broke it while chopping at a tree. I was/am interested in getting a sword I can do irresponsible brush whacking with. I never will have to chop a human being, and I am not one to let any blade sit unused, so. . .I will have to cut something.

On the other hand, I can think of one sword that can be abused and would probably be covered by warranty. . .
kensei_3knives_sm.jpg

But thats another story.
 
Those look pretty neat. Way too expensive and the name "kensei" has religious meaning in Japanese so I find that somewhat offensive, but they do look tough and just the right size to replace any machete or axe a solider might need.

I wonder how it would do next to an HI tarwar.
 
The corrugations don't really show up in that picture. If they're anything like the corrugations on their two newest models (the skinner and that yet-to be named one) they're pretty unusual. I've seen "similar" cuts but none done quite to that extent.
 
Here's a quote from the new American Kensei page on Busse's website

** The New American Kensei 47 "AK-47" is the second generation of the original American Kensei (circa 1989-97) and offers many performance enhancing improvements. The "AK-47" is now made of INFI and features our new Patent Pending Corrugated Bevel technology. **

Back to the topic proper. I think a well made sword "should" be able to easily handle heavy impacts, but this isn't normal use and falls squarely into the abuse category. I think I would feel safe using an HI sword for impromptu yardwork though, but were I to chop into one of those 10 pound rocks that are sometimes buried in my backyard and broke one I don't think I'd ask for that to be covered.
 
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